How Do We Balance Systemic Reform and Personal Transformation?

The memorial service for Charlie Kirk revealed a deep contradiction with the MAGA movement. Kirk’s widow was cheered when she forgave his assassin and modeled Jesus’ command to love your enemies. But the crowd also cheered when Stephen Miller and President Trump dehumanized their opponents and expressed hatred for their enemies. Esau McCaulley joins Phil and Skye to discuss the tension between Christian love and pagan power. Also this week, Dr. Terence Lester tells his inspiring story in his new book, “From Dropout to Doctorate,” and how he’s working both spiritually and systemically to reform education.

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0:00 - Show Starts

3:00 - Theme Song

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7:35 - Charlie Kirk’s Mixed Memorial Service

11:56 - Christlike Responses

22:53 - Two MAGAs

31:57 - Black Christians Grapple with Kirk’s Legacy

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44:00 - The After Party - What’s discipling you? Reimagine political engagement through the lens of scripture and neighbor love with the free Redeeming Babble course today - https://redeemingbabel.org/the-after-party/free-course2/?utm_source=TPO&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=TheHolyPost&utm_term=Fall2025

45:07 - Sponsor - BetterHelp - This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at https://www.betterhelp.com/HOLYPOST and get 10% off your first month!

46:05 - Interview

47:46 - How Poverty Causes Trauma

52:47 - The Headstart People Don’t Get

1:01:48 - The Sick, Sin, and System Narratives

1:14:33 - How He Decided Not to Quite

1:25:18 - End Credits

Links Mentioned in News Segment:

Bulwark Article on Two Speeches at the Memorial:

https://www.thebulwark.com/i/174243794/a-tale-of-two-speeches

Black Christians Confront Charlie Kirk’s Religious Legacy:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2025/09/22/charlie-kirk-black-christians/

Other Resources:

From Dropout to Doctorate: Breaking the Chains of Educational Injustice by Terence Lester: https://a.co/d/itUHu8I

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