You know, what are some of the things you learned from those negative role models, those CEOs, what are, what are like actual behaviors, things they said, things they did that you wrote down in your journal or you put it away in your mind, I will never do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. What are some of those few things?

Well, you know, exhibits of lifestyle, you know, thinking they're sort of, you know, above everybody else and, you know, the way they talk to people, it's just, it's just a callousness. I can't be touched. CEOs get drunk under their own power all the time and CEOs have an enormous amount of power, but not everybody can handle it. Actually, CEOs are way more power than they realize. That's another thing that I talk about often. Because again, they come from another job when they wanted to see where they had far less power. There's an enormous gap, you know, between a senior executive and being a CEO. They just think that it's a small incremental thing. It's not. It's ginormous. So, you know, once they start to embrace that enormity, sometimes the behavior, you know, does not, you know, improve and I guess it gets worse, especially when they've had success. It's now they think they can afford whatever. You can't, you know, you know, it is important. It's just a job, man. It's just a role. If you're not a CEO tomorrow, who would you

be? Is it lonely?

Look, you know, some people have enormous need for having company around and they get lonely very quickly. Other people far less. I don't. You know, I'm very good at, you know, being alone. That's just my psychology. That makes me more suitable for the role as well because it doesn't phase me. But I know a lot of other people, they just have a tremendous need. And that probably makes them less suitable for these roles. And that's why, you know, I've been involved in a lot of CEO searches for other companies and everybody is always lamenting the fact that my gatherers are dearth of talent out there and it's like, well, and it's not so much that they don't have the material skills. It's that the psychology is very difficult to acquire. And you know, you could argue, you know, that CEOs are a little bit dysfunctional in their psychology, that's a subjective, you know, assessment, but it's different that I will tell

you how to being rejected by IBM earlier.