Is There a Pathway for Physicians to Be Productive?

There's not a lot of pathways for APPs to do the same thing unless you sort of create them. And that's often easier if you generally need some other training, I think. A lot of people have MBAs at that level or the equivalent of MBAs for health care leadership. There's kind of a natural ceiling. If you're just somebody who's got their clinical degree and whatever it is that we do, you become one of these kind of team leads in your department.