Outro

This week we have a very special guest: Robert Malley, a veteran American diplomat and Middle East expert. From advising President Clinton at Camp David to serving as President Obama’s top White House official for the Middle East and then as Biden’s Special Envoy for Iran, Malley has spent decades at the heart of U.S. diplomacy. Today he joins Shadi Hamid and Damir Marusic to discuss his new book, Tomorrow Is Yesterday: Life, Death, and the Pursuit of Peace in Israel/Palestine.

Malley begins the discussion with an arresting suggestion: that the war in Gaza has brought Palestinians and Israelis back to where they were before 1948 — before the twentieth century, even. Looking back at the Oslo Peace Process, Malley argues that liberal peacemaking was too dismissive of those who are motivated by history or faith. Yet it is precisely those attachments — Zionism’s pull toward Eretz Yisrael, the Palestinian longing for the right of return — that define the conflict’s soul. Any peace plan has to take these deep yearnings into account from the get-go.

Shadi insists that resilience itself has become the Palestinians’ act of resistance. Their struggle, refracted now through moral discourse and digital mediation, animates the conscience of a younger America. He predicts that one day this generation will alter U.S. policy in a way that may make peace truly possible — by putting significant pressure on Israel to make concessions it has rarely been willing to make. Malley wonders how one persuades a people that their yearning is wrong; Shadi replies that after genocide, there is no moral equivalency between the competing narratives. And Damir reminds everyone that peace without victory is only surrender.

Given its timeliness — Israel and Hamas are currently deciding whether to adopt Trump’s Gaza peace plan — we are making the episode free for all subscribers. The tail end of the episode has several golden moments: Robert discusses the details of Trump’s peace plan; Shadi asks Robert why he thinks that October 7 was “Palestinian to the core”; Robert explains his support for the Abraham Accords; the real problem with the blockade and sanctions on Gaza; Shadi asks what Obama really believes about the conflict; “Obama is a speech that has been cut mid-sentence”; why Obama’s presidency hurts Shadi more than Trump’s; “Something fundamentally rotten about the foreign policy establishment despite their pretense to morality?”; some Bernie nostalgia; and more!

Required Reading:

* Robert Malley and Hussein Agha, Tomorrow Is Yesterday: Life, Death, and the Pursuit of Peace in Israel/Palestine (Amazon).

* Elliott Abrams, “There Never Will Be a Palestinian State. So What’s Next?” (Mosaic).

* Damir, “Hamas’ Bid for Revolutionary Legitimacy” (WoC).

* Shadi, “A Genocide is Happening in Gaza. We Should Say So” (Washington Post).

Full video below:

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