The Brainy Business Podcast - Catland Burgoyne

Today I am very excited to introduce you to Katelyn Bourgoin. As you will hear during our conversation, I met Katelyn via Twitter where she has been kind enough to tag me many times when people ask for recommendations for people who are using psychology in marketing or for business as well as for podcast recommendations, books, or just for someone to follow. Katelyn also has a phenomenal newsletter that is so engaging — I just love how well she understands her audience. We will be talking about that a lot more during the conversation today.  

Katelyn uses reciprocity so well by shining the light on others and it comes back in a really great way. Before any non-marketers tune out and say this episode is not for you, know that creating engaging content that people want to respond to matters for everyone whatever your industry, whoever you are communicating with, and whatever you want to achieve. People like to work with those they like. Framing your messages with the recipient in mind is never a bad idea. Katelyn is a marketer and market researcher so that is the lens of her statements throughout the episode, but I challenge you to consider all the ways this can be useful to you in your life and business. For anyone with a newsletter or striving to have one, and who has ever been mystified by Twitter and especially Twitter threads, get ready for some awesome tips and free resources. 

• [00:41] Today I am very excited to introduce you to Katelyn Bourgoin. 
• [02:13] Katelyn is a marketer and market researcher so that is the lens of her statements throughout the episode, but the tips are for everyone!
• [04:24] Katelyn shares about herself and how she found herself in the behavioral sciences. 
• [05:50] She ended up working with a bunch of companies and seeing the same problem over and over: they just didn’t know who their best customers were or why they bought. That led her to launch the company she has today called Customer Camp.
• [08:18] When she decided that she wanted to help people overcome that problem she discovered an innovation framework known as Jobs to Be Done. 
• [09:56] Jobs to Be Done is really important for understanding the context of the customer situation and what would cause them to seek out and choose a new solution. 
• [11:44] Their company exists to help people build a better understanding of their buyers through educating them on why people buy, training, and products.
• [12:39] It was thinking beyond the research and what they do to what would be engaging for potential customers. 
• [14:54] Having a functionally better product is important but there are all these other factors that you also need to consider when you think about the job holistically. 
• [16:00] You have to not just look at the functionality of a product but you have to consider the social and emotional aspects too. 
• [18:45] In having these conversations about the buyers' journey, pulling out the details, and mapping them, that is what leads to being able to design better marketing. 
• [20:14] Talk to buyers who have bought to try and understand their buying journey — that’s a step a lot of marketers are missing. 
• [23:00] The trigger technique is a good solution for pulling out the bits that you can make most actionable and share with your team to back up your strategy. (Freebie in the links below!)
• [25:47] When they designed the newsletter, they thought about what was the job of the newsletter. They wanted to create a newsletter to make people feel like it was food for their brains.
• [26:58] It has to be something really quick to consume and it has to be something where you walk away feeling like you have ideas for applying them to your own work.
• [29:55] People need to feel like they are getting something back to open and read a newsletter.  It can be inspiration, validation, or something to forward. 
• [32:02] They realized it was better to have consistency with their newsletter even in the subject line. 
• [34:44] Testing and seeing what works is very helpful.  
• [37:54] Choose the social media platform where you think you can be consistent. 
• [39:21] Make a big effort to follow the right people. She follows people who inspire her and she can learn from. 
• [40:57] Leverage the opportunity to highlight work that other people are doing.
• [42:54] Melina shares about one of Katelyn’s Twitter threads.
• [44:32] When it comes to writing a thread, the first tweet is the most important one. 
• [47:34] Understanding your customers when it comes to figuring out demand is everything. Clarity of what works doesn’t come from sitting around in a boardroom and thinking about it. It comes from actually engaging with customers.
• [49:05] If you want to market better, really be obsessed about understanding customers. 
• [50:28] Melina shares her closing thoughts. 
• [52:31] If you enjoy the experience I’ve provided here for you, will you share about it? That could mean leaving a rating/review or sharing the episode with a friend (or 10!

Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show. 

Let’s connect:

• Melina@TheBrainyBusiness.com
• The Brainy Business® on Facebook
• The Brainy Business on Twitter
• The Brainy Business on Instagram
• The Brainy Business on LinkedIn
• Melina on LinkedIn
• The Brainy Business on Youtube
• Join the BE Thoughtful Revolution – our free behavioral economics community, and keep the conversation going!

More from The Brainy Business:

• 🎉🎉🎉 Buy Melina’s award-winning book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia 🎉🎉🎉

Get the Books Mentioned on (or related to) this Episode:

• The Innovator's Dilemma, by Clayton Christensen
• Atomic Habits, by James Clear
• The Experience Maker, by Dan Gingiss
• The Jobs to Be Down Playbook, by Jim Kalbach
• Marketing to Mindstates, by Will Leach

Connect with Katelyn: 

• Katelyn’s Website
• Katelyn on Twitter
• Katelyn on LinkedIn

Top Recommended Next Episode: The Most Important Step in Applying Behavioral Economics: Understanding the Problem (episode 126)

Already Heard That One? Try These: 

• The Truth About Pricing  (episode 5)
• Functional Fixedness (episode 194)
• NUDGES & Choice Architecture (episode 35)
• Habits (episode 21)
• Scarcity (episode 14)
• Framing (episode 16)
• How to Create Remarkable Experiences with Dan Gingiss (episode 185)
• The Speed and Economics of Trust, an Interview with Stephen M.R. Covey (episode 148)

Other Important Links: 

• Brainy Bites - Melina’s LinkedIn Newsletter 
• Know Your Customers’ “Jobs to Be Done”
• Customer Camp Newsletter
• Trigger Technique: Turn Buyer Stories into Smart Marketing Ideas

Check out What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia