One of the ways that i learned about challenging someone that is really, really firm in their thinking is to ask the question, how do you know? And its value in conflict is is really profound. When somebody says something that i find outrageous, i just say, excuse me? Ha ha, ha, othe hed. So it sort of makes, it forces them to be clear bout their own point of view. This is what, to me, this is part of the heart of the inner action component of design thinking.