So

for each of you, it sounds like stoicism was, as it has been conceived, oftentimes lineage, a philosophy for hard times, when when you face trials. So i'm also curious when and where the two of you met and how you decided to co author a book together. Well,

we never met. We've never metso the answer to that is simple. We have never met ista with a phone, cors i at the university on a very, very comfortable white chair. And therefore, i need help. And i only know one person, or no of one person i think can help me. Because he'd written, leonidas had written an article for the modern stoso blog, remindig me, caestos om to day blocg at that time, about sholdin sto care about elephants. So i rang him. I didn't ring my head enot him, because he doesn't really do. He was lik, can i, can i call youlike ia sat i called him. Is like, i i don't know what you want. I can cant. I don't have money. I im not, i cit a person. I'm not tis, like, favors academic. I don't think i have anything to offer you. I don't know. I was li, you have exactly what i want. And it's like, whats i sad. You know a lot about stoicism, ad thems like y i can help you that that i can do. Yes. It was quite funny. Indeduction, really. It's very rare that i would do that. But i was determined. It was like, i must have this man in my life. It's almost romantic in that sense. But it was like, i must have him. He's the guy. He's the only person. I mean, chris gilbert, christopher gill was also doing this kind of work for i was like, he's not going t inot. We have to grab him. And he wasn't so innocent or so contemporary. He was looking at much more the anctien angle. And i was like, won we doing to day? And la, for me, was the only person who was looking athat ends. And

that led to illustrate a book togethermutengthatwas

much later. So people often say to me, only write a book. We say, said yourself, chris, and you like, have you even written ematogether? If you haven't done that, like, writing a book is a yewnow, a few punches, i would say, sometimes you get bloode to know, sometimes, because, you know, it hurts fren you have to kill your darling. So we started off with academic papers, because we felt that the most appropriate thing to do was to get peerreview papers and to see if we were on to something. And not only that, but not, you know, trie to invent, invent a kind of stirism twas very important for us to get peereview papers to no k were the boundaries of were what we would like to add to the contemporary canon? Here is such a thing, and where is it that we must be strictly tied to stoic theory? And you can only do that, in my opinion, if you write pe review papers. So i stat id there. And then we've confidence and mentalship, guidance. Conversation with vew christ, for example, we decided that we could venture out and write a book. But it wasn't like, yes, let's write a book. I'm very against us an academic just writing a book on a subject when you haven't had the rigorous academic background. I'm not saying that everybody should do that, but i think if you 're an academic worth your sort, that has to be part of the process, and that should not be controversial.