How do you understand the quality of your code? Carl and Richard talk to Richard Gross about his open-source tool called CodeCharta. Richard talks about various ways you can use CodeCharta to understand your codebase - whether it is complexity, number of changes, or number of coders involved - there are many visualization opportunities. This leads to a discussion about what problematic code actually is. Sometimes, too many people work in the same place, and sometimes, there is only one. Some complexity is necessary, and sometimes it's just refactoring. But what tools like CodeCharta provide is a way to focus on potential points of change and then see when the change has been successful - and you can even print a 3D model to have a physical copy of your code!