A lot of these people kind of have that aesthetic of the counterculture and then are often using it to try to turn out a business. Stuart Brand was always trying to turned out a business with the various things he was doing in the hippie movement or whatever. Steve Jobs does the same thing, right? It's like IBM is like the old kind of computer company, the old hierarchical corporation. Apple were the new kind of individualistic company that's empowering you as the individual that's taken down these hierarchies. But we're eventually building what's going to become the biggest company in the world by market cap.

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