The Importance of Ukraine in NATO

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Kissinger was against Ukraine joining NATO, but his analysis has changed. He says Russia is no longer the conventional threat it used to be. And secondly, we have now armed Ukraine to a point where it will be the best armed and most modern country in Europe. So for the safety of Europe, it is better to have Ukraine and NATO.

Henry Kissinger was one of the most influential and controversial diplomats of the 20th century. He was National Security Advisor and Secretary of State to two American presidents. Now, with China’s growing influence and the prospect of powerful technology that could change the nature of war, his ideas on great power conflict are more relevant than ever. On the eve of his 100th birthday, The Economist spent over eight hours in conversation with Mr Kissinger. In this podcast special, we focus on three elements of the wide-ranging discussion: the role of China, AI and weak American leadership.

Zanny Minton Beddoes hosts with Edward Carr. The full transcript of the conversation with Mr Kissinger is available online.

For full access to print, digital and audio editions of The Economist, try a free 30-day digital subscription by going to www.economist.com/intelligenceoffer. We're always trying to improve our podcasts and we'd like your help. Tell us what you think by filling out our listener survey. To take part visit economist.com/intelligencesurvey.