How Did You Get Involved in the Pinbuck?

The opportunities are there, it seems, with a little bit of initiative. It's really just a matter of of choosing which your preferred channel is. I consider mike griffiths to be like, definitely a mentor two to three laps ahead of me at every step of the way. And as he grew, i grew. So when you have those sponsors who get that big executive job, and you've got the five year relationship with him, they might say, hey, i'd like you to go ahead and apply for a head of p m o. Got to earn your way in et. That's the all you need is the crack and the opening.