From Transaction to Participation
The Conversation Factory
Exploring Fish Pie and Chief Creative Officer Roles
This chapter discusses the cultural differences in a fish pie recipe between Britain and America, while also explaining the role of a chief creative officer in brand marketing, strategy, and fostering creativity.
My guest today is James Rutter, Chief Creative Officer at COOK, the pioneering frozen food company, where he oversees internal and external branding and communications. COOK is a founding UK B Corp, committed to using its business as a force for good in society, and has been ranked in the top 100 Best Companies To Work For every year since 2013. COOK’s award-winning frozen meals and puddings (which are desserts, btw) are made by hand in Kent and Somerset, and sold from 98 of its own shops nationwide, in 950 concessions and through its own home delivery service.
James joined COOK in 2010 after 15 years as a financial journalist and editor, and he speaks and writes regularly about purpose-driven business and brands. You should really follow him on LinkedIn!
James and I talk about the glory that is a proper Fish Pie, and about citizenship and participation. James’ leadership philosophy for his internal team is grounded in a sense of play and a recognition of community.
He shares some of his favorite insights from Peter Block’s book, "Community: The Structure of Belonging" and the deep value he’s found in working with Jon Alexander on Citizenship and Participation. Jon Alexander is the author of the bestselling book, "Citizens." James references Jon Alexander’s Participation Premium Equation in the opening quote.
There is so much goodness in this episode!
At Minute 27 James shares his community and transformation insights from Peter Block, including the essential idea that a small group, a community, is the fundamental unit of change, especially when that group is grounded in possibility. He also goes to share the impact that Block’s ideas of Inversion have had on him:
As James says, summarizing Block:
“It's not the performer who creates the performance, but the audience… And again, in a conversation sense… it's the listener who creates the conversation whereas we often think it's the speaker who creates the conversation… it's the child who creates the parent, not the parent who creates… this is (not) some kind of answer, but… a thought to play with. What if that's the way it works? How would you approach it differently? If the audience creates the performance, then how are you seeking to bring the audience into it? How are you giving them the power?”
At Minute 42 we discuss the importance of Connection over content:
“...you've got to seek to build the human bonds first before you seek to do whatever the worky thing is you want to do.”
In essence, we are marinating in Danny Meyer’s ideas of an Employee-First workplace, which is why we talk, at the end of the episode, about how Happy Cooks make Happy Food, referencing an earlier conversation we had.
And James insisted on talking about my Mom being on the Mike Douglas show with John Lennon, Yoko Ono and Chuck Berry in 1972, hosting a historical cooking segment - this episode is famous because it’s the first time John and Chuck met and Played together. You can see A Tiny Video Clip of my mom on TV here (most of them seem to get pulled down). At a crucial moment in the cooking segment, my mother, just 22 and not actually my mother yet (or anyone’s!) realized that the studio band was playing chaotic music, and that everyone was in a chaotic space, and she announced that unless we had a calm, peaceful environment, the food would taste chaotic - our intention and our energy would flow into the food. The Host, Mike Douglas, asked the band to play something quieter and more mellow, and John Lennon, assigned to cut cabbage, began reciting the mantra he wanted to suffuse the food:
“Rock n Roll…Rock n Roll…Rock n Roll”
What do YOU want to suffuse your work with?
Head over to theconversationfactory.com/listen for full episode transcripts, links, show notes and more key quotes and ideas. You can also head over there and become a monthly supporter of the show for as little as $8 a month. You'll get complimentary access to exclusive workshops and resources that I only share with this circle of facilitators and leaders.
Links
Peter Block on Community: The Structure of Belonging
Jon’s Agency Equation: A Proposal
Agency = Purpose + Belonging + Power
Agency: the ability to shape the context of one’s life
Purpose: the belief that there is something beyond your immediate self that matters
Belonging: the belief that there is a context to which you matter in turn
Power: practical access to genuine opportunities to shape that context
Exit, Voice, Loyalty: An essential book on people and organizations
Finding flourishing and play at work - inspiration in https://www.punchdrunk.com/work/
Quotes no one said: “Teach Them to Yearn for the Vast and Endless Sea”
Via quote investigator: https://quoteinvestigator.com/2015/08/25/sea/
Matt LeMay on Agile Conversations
Happy Cooks make happy food: On Daniel’s Mom being on the Mike Douglas show with John Lennon, Yoko Ono and Chuck Berry Hosting a cooking segment: Context and History!
Why this episode is famous - it’s the first time John and Chuck met and Played together.
A Tiny Video Clip of my mom on TV! (most of them seem to get pulled down)
The AI-powered Podcast Player
