Discovering the Swimsuit Crotch Gospel

It's time for your August Indulgence Gospel! Corinne is here. We’re getting into power lifting, fruit rage, menstrual taboos and YouTubers telling you how to eat.  

If you are already a paid subscriber, you’ll have this entire episode in your podcast feed and access to the entire transcript in your inbox and on the Burnt Toast Patreon.

If you are not a paid subscriber, you'll only get the first chunk. To hear the whole conversation or read the whole transcript, you'll need to become a paid Burnt Toast subscriber.

Also, don't forget to order Fat Talk: Parenting In the Age of Diet Culture! Get your signed copy now from Split Rock Books (they ship anywhere in the USA). You can also order it from your independent bookstore, or from Barnes & Noble, Amazon, Target, Kobo or anywhere you like to buy books. (Or get the UK edition or the audiobook!) 

Disclaimer: Virginia and Corinne are humans with a lot of informed opinions. They are not nutritionists, therapists, doctosr, or any kind of health care providers. The conversation you're about to hear and all of the advice and opinions they give are just for entertainment, information, and education purposes only. None of this is a substitute for individual medical or mental health advice.

BUTTER 

OTHER LINKS

last month’s Indulgence Gospel

our conversation with Martinus Evans

Corinne's writing on power lifting

Mia O’Malley beach chair highlight

fat friendly chairs  from Target

study on athletic performance and menstrual cycles

 Serena Williams was winning tennis matches while pregnant.

Virginia's menstrual taboos piece for Scientific American

Amy Palanjian

Wray

Geneva dress.

our New York City weekend,

Tiny Dollhouse store

Shiny By Nature socks for fat calves 

CREDITS

The Burnt Toast Podcast is produced and hosted by Virginia Sole-Smith. Follow Virginia on Instagram or Twitter. Burnt Toast transcripts and essays are edited and formatted by Corinne Fay, who runs @SellTradePlus, an Instagram account where you can buy and sell plus size clothing. The Burnt Toast logo is by Deanna Lowe. Our theme music is by Jeff Bailey and Chris Maxwell. Tommy Harron is our audio engineer. Thanks for listening and for supporting anti-diet, body liberation journalism!

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Virginia

So, Corinne, how are you?

Corinne

I’m doing good. I’m trying to think of something to talk about besides the weather, because it’s just been really, really hot here.

Virginia

I feel like every week the newspaper is like, “It was the hottest day in the history of the world yesterday.” And yeah, we all just hold on for dear life because the planet is burning. 

Corinne

Feeling a lot of climate anxiety.

Virginia

Well, I have two updates for us based on last month’s Indulgence Gospel.

One is a very important text I received from Julia Turshen, friend of the show, cookbook author, friend of my heart. She texted to say, “I listened to Indulgence Gospel, great as always. Here’s something I learned a couple of years ago that I wish I learned decades ago: You can just hold the crotch of your one piece swimsuit to the side if you need to pee. No need to take the whole thing off!”

I believe this is in response to us saying we don’t like one pieces. 

Corinne

Yes. I knew that. I do that. 

Virginia

And you still don’t like one pieces?

Corinne

You’ve never done this? Were you not aware? 

Virginia

I think I’ve done it, like, in a moment of panic, but I don’t think I realized it was a legit thing that we are all just doing with our one pieces. I have been fully taking one pieces on and off and hating my life.

Corinne

Well, I do this. I still find that two piece are sometimes easier to deal with. 

Virginia

Because you can just take it off like underwear, like one normally does. Well, Julia says this changed her life. I said, “I will read this and credit you appropriately for this swimsuit crotch gospel.” And she said, “Yes, please do the more people who know the better.” So, here we are. 

Corinne

Yes. Thank you for this swimsuit crotch gospel.

Virginia

Just here to provide a full service experience. 

Corinne

I am glad we’re announcing that, because everyone should know and feel empowered to do that.

Virginia

I think I’ve done it thinking, what am I doing? And now I do feel a sense of peace that it’s just like, this how you are supposed to pee in a one piece.

Corinne

Like I said last time, I’ve been wearing a long sleeve one piece. Like, there’s no WAY that’s coming off.

Virginia

Once you’re in, you’re in.

Corinne

You’re stuck. Sometimes if I’m too sweaty, I can’t even get it on.

Virginia

Alright. The second breaking news update is from commenter Kelly who posted:

Hi, I am the one who asked about frozen treats and I was trying to say in an Instagram answer short way that I put frozen cherries in a mug, microwave them for 60 seconds, then scoop rocky road on top and let the melty cherries and their juices mix with the chocolate ice cream. 

Corinne

Okay, that sounds freaking amazing. So embarrassed for us that we did not figure that out.

Virginia

We apparently could not read that day.

Corinne

Kelly did such a good job! She really sent us this delicious treat tip. I’m a cherry super fan, so I really want to try this. And yes, we just totally missed it. 

Virginia

Other commenters were like, “You guys, it was ‘microwave for 60 seconds,’ like that’s how you thaw the cherries.” But no one else had put it together with the Rocky Road ice cream, which…

Corinne

I know. I just totally missed that it was all one thing. And I love that it’s a multi ingredient frozen treat.

Virginia

 She just set a new bar for how I want to operate with frozen desserts. 

Corinne

Yes. I really want to try this. Sounds delicious. Thanks for the tip, Kelly, and sorry that we really bungled that.

Virginia

Okay, let’s do some questions. I’ll read the first one because it is for you. This person writes,

I’m curious to hear Corinne’s thoughts on sports with weight classes like powerlifting. I love Olympic lifting, but weight classes keep me from competing because of my scale issues.

Corinne

Yeah, this is such a great question. I have so many thoughts about it. I also just want to say: I’m relatively new to the sport, and I’m not an expert, so I definitely might get some things wrong. 

So powerlifting competitions have weight classes. At the meet I did, the top three lifters from each weight class get prizes, and then there’s also a prize for best lifter overall. They use some complicated math formula to calculate who is the best lifter based on how much they lift taking into account body weight. 

Virginia

Oh, because as you explained to us, the bigger you are, the more you can lift. 

Corinne

Yeah. Although, I’m sure we’ll get people writing in because there are a bunch of powerlifting fans in the Burnt Toast community. And I’ve heard that past a certain point, that’s not really right. Like it might actually disadvantage people in much bigger bodies.

It’s also all in kilograms. So, the heaviest class was 110+ kilograms which is like, around 240 pounds. I’m way beyond that. So first of all, I’m not nervous about making weight or something because, like, it’s just not even close. 

Virginia

You knew you were firmly over the threshold. 

Corinne

I don’t need to worry about that.

The meet that I went to, when you have to weigh in, you just went into a private room with someone and stepped on a scale. And it was in kilograms, so it means nothing to me. I have no idea what those numbers mean.

But I did think about it, because the roster is publicly available. So yeah, anyone who knows me could look up the roster and find out how much I weigh. 

Virginia

Especially if they know the metric system.

Corinne

Yeah, or can Google.

Virginia

That is personal information that is being displayed publicly. That is uncomfortable. 

Corinne

I just decided I was more interested in competing than worrying about that.

Virginia

I have what is maybe a very basic question, but if you were on the line between two weight classes, is it like I want to be in the higher weight class or I want to be in the lower weight class relative to performance?

Corinne

Usually people want to make a lower weight class so that they’re competing with people who weigh less than them and presumably lifting more. 

Virginia

Oh, so you they would have an advantage being like the higher weight. 

Corinne

That’s the thinking, but for the meet that I did, if I had been in the weight class below mine, I wouldn’t have placed.

Virginia

Got it. There’s some variety of how skilled people are, how long they’ve been lifting, that kind of stuff is going to come into play, too. 

Corinne

The meet that I did, I think the organizers pushed to have higher weight classes. They got rid of some of the lower weight classes—because they start really low, like around 95 pounds or something. So they got rid of some of the lower weight classes and added some higher ones, because some meets will only go up to, I would have to check, but it’s like 85 kilograms would be like the highest weight class, which is like, I don’t know, 180 pounds or something. 

Virginia

I mean, yeah, if this matters, then that’s clearly not serving people.

Corinne

It is definitely an interesting, complicated issue. It also makes me think a lot about the conversation with Martinus Evans about accessibility. Who we are encouraging to participate in sports when there is a weight class for somebody who is well under 100 pounds, but not one for someone who is 300 pounds. 

Virginia

Right. Right. That does say quite a lot. 

Corinne

So, to the person who wrote this in: I would just say you should go for it. If you want to talk about it more, message me. Maybe also Julia Turshen would have something to say about this.

Virginia

I think she will. Julia, we will be awaiting your texts and comments. 

And it is upsetting because this is a sport, as you’ve written, that should be very body size inclusive, like pro-larger bodies. So the fact that you’re still going to have to navigate anti-fatness in the way that a lot of these meets are structured is super disheartening. 

Corinne

I do think the reason for weight classes is to try and make it fair, so you’re competing against people who are relatively your size. But it’s still hard to include all the natural body variations within that.1

Virginia

And I mean, it’s just so reductive, right? How many kilograms you weigh is just one aspect of your overall fitness and strength and performance and all of these things.

Corinne

In a lot of meets, there are regular and also masters, which is over 40. So there are just different ways to divide people up to try and keep it fair.

Virginia

Interesting. There’s a lot here. 

You want to read the next one?

Fat Life Questions

Corinne

Yes.

My body has changed so much in the last 15 years and I’m learning to be neutral about it and just buy new clothes or shoes or whatever I need in the body I am in now. I’ve gotten pretty good at this except for my wedding rings. I like my wedding rings but my body is changing so frequently that constantly having them resized doesn’t feel viable. I bought a cheap stand in but it doesn’t feel the same. What do we do with the things that no longer fit but we also miss and don’t want to let go of entirely? I’m sure rings aren’t the only thing that fall into this category, but it’s the one I struggle with the most. Does anything fall into this category for you?

Virginia

Okay, free list, this is where we leave you!

If you want to hear our answer to this question and also get our thoughts on Bobby Parrish, you’re going to need to become a paid subscriber. Thank you for supporting anti-diet, body liberation journalism.

Virginia

So, my wedding dress is just never ever going to fit again. It was a totally different stage of my life, body, relationship with my body, etc. Which I think is fine. I have no emotions about it, because I just think, well, who I was at 28 is not who I am at 42 in every way, so I’m fine with that being just a memento and something that is in a box in the basement.

But there is a weird myth that your wedding dress is supposed to continue to fit you, I do think that’s part of wedding culture in a real fucked up way. So I just want to quickly say that that is not some an expectation we should hold ourselves to.

I’m trying to think of other sentimental things that I was bummed stopped fitting. Do you have anything?

Corinne

I do have a couple of things. I have some t-shirts that are sentimental. I have a t-shirt that I screen printed in high school that I hold on to and that doesn’t fit and also just like feels gross, like it’s old t-shirt material. But yeah, I just keep it.

I think I also have a pair of shorts that I really, really, really loved and that were really expensive.

I feel like it’s fine to just hold on to stuff. Either at some point you’ll be ready to get rid of it or you’ll find someone to pass it on to or you’ll just have it and look at it fondly sometimes. 

However I do think with wedding rings, if you want to be wearing them, get them resized or put them on a chain. 

Virginia

I was going to say, I know a lot of folks who put them on a chain and that seems like a lovely solution. I think some people really like wearing a wedding ring on their finger, they like that symbolism of that. So maybe you get a stand-in band so you have something on your finger if that feels important, but you put the actual wedding ring on a chain around your neck. 

It’s hard, right? Because I totally get the emotions and the conflict around that and any of these items of clothing. It also does seem beneficial to—this is going to sound callous—work on detaching a little bit. The ring is not your marriage, the shirt is not your high school experience. These are just objects and figuring out how to think of them as memories might help.

Maybe you display it somewhere. Like, you could frame your original rings and hang them in your bedroom or something. I think maybe it’s a process of detaching from needing to have this on my body in order to feel like I have the experience or I have the memory.

Corinne

Cant you also get something that goes inside your ring? I guess that would just be to make it tighter. But you could get it sized up and then get some thing that you can stick in there if it gets too big. 

Virginia

That makes sense. 

I think this is also maybe just honoring that this is one of the hard pieces of this for you. You’re making a lot of peace with how your body is changing. I mean, in any 15 year period of your life you’re going to see some big differences in your body, one way or the other. That’s totally normal. There can be some grief and adjusting to, but just honoring that this is a tough one and it makes sense that this is a particularly tough one.

I did just remember a really amazing purple coat I got on a trip to Peru in my 20s. I do remember being really bummed when that coat stopped fitting. It was like, I’m not going to be able to just order the next size up from Banana Republic or whatever because it was bought on a trip. 

Corinne

Do you still have it?

Virginia

No, I did get rid of it ages ago. It was real tiny.

I also had a lavender leather jacket I bought in college on a trip to Italy my junior year abroad. I was in Florence, I think, and I bought this leather jacket in the market. It was so great. This was Buffy the Vampire Slayer heyday, early 2000s. Like, a lavender leather jacket. It was so good. I was shoving my arms in that thing forever.

Yeah. Alright. This is a fun, practical one.

Favorite fat friendly beach chairs?

Do you have any thoughts for us on that? Corinne, you are suddenly the Burnt Toast chair expert!

Corinne

I know, I wish I had a better recommendation because I really don’t have one. I will say, I have broken a beach chair.

Virginia

I’m sorry that now every month we’re like, “tell us more about chairs you’ve broken, Corinne.”

Corinne

I have a camping chair. That’s probably what I would bring. It’s a Costco brand2 camping chair. That’s what I have. 

Virginia

Mia O’Malley has a highlight on her Instagram of all sorts of chairs and folks using different chairs so we will link to that.

I currently own no beach chairs and this is making me realize that I should maybe own some beach chairs? Or at least when I do, I’m going to consult this list. We all deserve comfortable chairs. 

Corinne

Write in and tell us if you have a really good beach chair recommendation. 

Virginia

I do have a Chair Science Update! People had really good comments on the last Indulgence Gospel about chairs and dining room chairs. And I am considering some from Target that look really good. Flash Furniture is the brand and they have a million different dining chairs, so Corinne and I did some extensive texting about these chairs.

I’m still pondering and doing some research. I’m also looking at for a bench. Anyway, I’ll keep y’all posted but Chair Science is afoot. It is underway in some capacity. 

Corinne

I’m excited for more updates on that.

Okay, let me read the next one.

To me a big missing piece around discussions of diet culture, body image, and women’s lives in general, is the daily effects of the menstrual cycle. Every diet and exercise plan is structured as if we’re on a period-less even keel every day of the month, which of course we are not. Women need and want different foods depending on the time of the month and our energy levels and motivation for exercise can be all over the map. In my 20’s and 30’s there were plenty of times when I would be going along on a healthy eating and exercise stint and then my period would come around, turn up the volume on life, and it would all go to hell.

The fact that our cycles and rhythms are ignored is yet another way that the reality of women’s lives conflict with the vision that is sold to us. Speaking for myself, the real lifestyle influencer is how I feel on a given day and my menstrual cycle has a lot to do with that. I own plenty of clothing items that I have a good chance of pulling off the week after my period, but would not attempt during PMS. We talk to each other sometimes about these glaring realities, but in the artificiality of wellness, they’re mainly ignored.

Virginia

So my first response is that I’ve been on an IUD for about 10 years and every day is the same. Every day is the same for me. I don’t get a period anymore, so I don’t have these fluctuations. That said, I do remember the roller coaster. Part of the reason I’m on an IUD is my body has a fucking roller coaster around these things if I’m not on it.

And, I do feel like there is diet culture embedded in the critique of diet culture here. 

Corinne

Totally. I agree. 100%. To also share my experience, I didn’t get my period for like five years for various health reasons. I recently started getting it again. And it is kind of a roller coaster. And, as someone who is recently doing a lot of exercising, I think listening to how you feel is really important and valid. But I do think there’s this new thing where people eat certain seeds around certain times of the month.

Virginia

Like avocado and you must rest when you’re in your luteal phase?

Corinne

Like flax seeds and seed cycling. And also around exercise—no that’s a real thing!

Virginia

I know but it’s such a dumb name.

Corinne

Someone I follow on Instagram was posting recently about how there was a study and it looks like people’s athletic performance doesn’t actually really fluctuate that much according to the menstrual cycles, but their feelings do. I definitely noticed I’m a little more tired the week before my period. But mostly, that’s it. 

Virginia

Yeah. I mean, number one, we know that women have won marathons with their periods.3

Corinne

I didn’t know that. 

Virginia

To call back Martinus again, remember how women weren’t allowed to run marathons because of all our bleeding! 

Corinne

Oh right, because their uterus might fall out. 

Virginia

There are definitely professional athletes that do something amazing while menstruating at the same time. Serena Williams was winning tennis matches while pregnant. Our bodies can multitask. There’s something a little patriarchal and gender essentialist to be like, “Your body is fragile and can only be treated in certain ways in certain weeks.”

Corinne

And as discussed, not all women have menstrual cycles. 

Virginia

Correct. So I completely support “I don’t feel up to it.” But I also think, sometimes we feel like we have to justify not feeling up for exercise by saying “I have my period.” You could just not fucking want to exercise and that would be fine! You don’t have to be bleeding or about to bleed or doing anything with blood, you could just not want to exercise.

I also want to spend a minute on “I own plenty of clothing that I have a good chance of pulling off the week after my period but would not attempt during PMS.” Because I prefer to only wear clothes that fit all month long. I think this means you’re keeping some skinny jeans around and hoping to squeeze into them the week after your period and that feels like a stressful way to live with your clothes. 

Corinne

Yeah, I had to read that sentence a couple of times before I could really understand what was going on.

Virginia

“Good chance of pulling off” doesn’t mean they fit the next week. 

Corinne

I don’t think this happens to me. I don’t think I have clothes that fit only after my period. 

Virginia

Look, when my endometriosis was fully flared up this definitely was true. My weight did fluctuate significantly around my periods, not through dieting but just because when the cysts go haywire and everything swells up, it’s a whole situation. So there is that. But it wasn’t like, "oh, I’m keeping these slightly too small jeans and I can maybe squeeze into them when my cysts aren’t activated. It was like, when I’m in an endometrial flare, all clothing touching my body feels like death. And then when I’m not in an endometrial flare, I can just wear clothes. It wasn’t about trying to squeeze into something. 

Corinne

It’s also in the language of “pulling off” that kind of rubs me the wrong way. 

Virginia

You don’t have to pull off your clothes, your clothes are there to support you. 

And we say this with a lot of compassion. Like, this is hard.

I think you are both naming something that is really true, that we are expected to go hard and work out five days a week, no matter what, no excuses and #nopainnogain. And all that is definitely true in wellness culture and diet culture. And there’s then this wellness culture way of thinking about menstrual cycles that actually creates more work for a lot of a lot of folks. That is also in here. It is a lot. There’s a lot here. This makes me think there’s a reported piece to be done about all of this. 

Corinne

I feel like that’s probably true. 

Virginia

It’s been a while since I wrote about menstruation. It used to be one of my favorite topics! I did a big piece for Scientific American a few years ago on menstrual taboos. It was my first cover for them.

Corinne

What were the taboos that you wrote about?

Virginia

It was all about how menstruation is so taboo that we actually don’t have good science on menstruation, because males. 

Corinne

Wow. Case in point, right? 

Virginia

Male scientists are so sketched out by it. I interviewed these female researchers who would do presentations with actual menstrual blood and men would walk from the room, men would be like, “Don’t show us the menstrual blood!”

A big reason we don’t have better treatments for all the menstruation related issues is because men don’t like to hear about blood. It’s very upsetting. 

Corinne

Or better science on whether or not you actually need to seed cycle and take a nap. 

Virginia

Yes. All of that is being left to wellness gurus to figure out because mainstream science is very icked out by women’s bodies. So that was the piece and it was really fascinating.

Funny side note about that: My father in law, who’s a doctor, is a big Scientific American fan. We went over to their house and that issue was sitting on their coffee table. I think Dan was like, “hey, you know that is Virginia’s article in there?” He was like, “oh, yeah, I haven’t read it yet. The cover story is just some women’s health thing.”

Corinne

Wow.

Virginia

That’s my story. And then he was really proud and really sweet about it. But I was like, oh, case in point about menstrual taboos. All the male doctor, readers of that magazine, were clearly like what just showed up? 

Corinne

Not enough people studying endometriosis and PCOS stuff. 

Virginia

We’ve been thrown to the wolves for sure. Big props to my Sci Am editors who were all feminist and super awesome and are dragging their white male readership along with them while they do some really good stuff. 

Kids & Food Questions

Corinne

I’m struggling to overcome the mom impulse to save all the good food for the kids. I save the fresh berries for them and eat the questionable banana. Tips? 

Virginia

This is so real. I don’t think I had a strawberry for like six years. 

Corinne

This is so sad. I love strawberries. 

Virginia

It’s awful. It’s because you go to the store and the berries are like $6 a box and they’re the one produce item your child will reliably eat. You’re like, “I can’t have the strawberries. I’ve got to save them for the kids.”

Corinne

This is another example where I’m like I’m feeding myself like a toddler because strawberries are the produce item I eat.

Virginia

I mean, they are so good. 

Corinne

They are so good. 

Virginia

Obviously the answer is, don’t do this. Don’t do this! It’s fine. I think what’s at the root is the anxiety about whether the child is eating produce. So if you can let yourself off that hook, and know that not every meal needs to have produce on the plate, then the strawberries are more fair game, right? Because you’re not reserving them.

Also, children have no respect. They can house a pint of blueberries in one sitting. You bring the raspberries home from the store and they’re eaten before you’ve unpacked them. Which is fine, they go bad so fast anyway, but it’s like, that was $6. Cool. 

But I think if we can feel less pressure that they always have to have a piece of produce at every meal, then you can also enjoy the good berries. Or you can be like, I’m serving them the banana. They may not eat it, because kids really will not eat a banana with one bit of brown on it. It’s some kind of like evolutionary drive where they’re like, “this is will kill me if you give me this banana with one dot of brown on it.”

But it’s okay. You’re gently exposing them to the concept and it’s not about what they’ll eat necessarily. 

Corinne

Yeah. What about frozen berries? 

Virginia

Frozen berries are a great option. 

Corinne

At least they come in a bigger bag so you get a chance of having a few. 

Virginia

It’s a much better value. Part of the reason I do the smoothie every morning is because I’m like, well, they got all those frozen blueberries in the smoothie. And then if they don’t eat other produce for the rest of the day, I’m like well, we did that. That makes me feel more like I can eat the good strawberries. And there is the discussed microwaved cherries 60 seconds on some Rocky Road ice cream. Boom, you’re in. So yeah, cherries. Maybe that’s the solution.

Alright, I can read the next one. 

Do you think it’s okay to eat different foods than your kids for dinner while eating together, particularly food that appears “healthier”? For me it’s motivated by preference, not a desire to lose weight or be healthy. But I want to be cognizant of how my kids interpret it. For example, my kids love homemade pizza and we’ve made it once a week for the past four years. But Hello, that’s a long time to be eating the same food. I’m thoroughly sick of it by now and usually make myself Thai or Indian food that my family doesn’t like while they have their homemade pizza. I’m really confident in my choice that it’s not secretly diet culture, but want to make sure that my kids aren’t interpreting it that way.

Corinne

I feel like this is fine. It doesn’t strike me that Thai or Indian food is necessarily “healthier.” 

Virginia

Than homemade pizza. Yeah, I agree. 

Corinne

I don’t know if that’s code for something? Are you just eating lentils? 

Virginia

Maybe because there are more vegetables? Lentils are involved? 

Corinne

I also think you could probably tell your kids what’s going on. 

Virginia

Yeah, just say, “I’m really tired of pizza, guys. I know you love it. But I really want curry and you don’t like. So on the nights you guys get your pizza that you love, I have curry.”

I don’t think they’ll interpret it as diet culture. What I see as the more potential red flag here is, if your goal is one family, one meal—and that’s a big if, that does not need to be your goal. It is sometimes my goal and not always my goal. But: If your goal is that your kids will eat the meal you cook, you getting the special dispensation to make a separate dinner is kind of undermining your goal. Do you know what I mean? 

Corinne

Because then they might demand a separate special meal item?

Virginia

Not even a hypothetical. They probably already are regularly saying “I don’t want to eat this thing you made I want to eat x.” And if you’re saying to them, “No, you can’t eat x because we do one family one meal.” But then when you don’t like the meal, you’re making yourself something different, that’s a little tricky.

Corinne

Demonic.

Virginia

I think one solution might be, to say, it’s not pizza night anymore. It’s Pick Night and some people are picking to make homemade pizza and then some people are picking to make Indian food or whatever your options are. Like, most nights we try to eat the same meal but we definitely have Kid Pick Night. That means you get to pick, and you don’t have to eat the same thing as everyone else. So maybe just a little rebranding around this and you’re good to go. Because I want you to have your curry. I want you to have your Thai food.

Corinne

Okay, here’s the next one.

Can you help me feel less guilty about toddler pouches ? My two year old loves them, but they’re the main form of veggies she’ll eat. They’re so easy. My general mantra about kid feeding is the less stressed I am about what she eats, the better for everyone. But pouches hit some mom guilt spot that has me worrying that I’m feeding her sugar bombs because I’m lazy and she’ll now never learn to love bouillabaisse or whatever. 

Virginia

She may never learn to love bouillabaisse, but it will not be the fault of the pouches.

Pouches or juice or sugary cereal, like we talked about last month, they are on this list of foods that parents have so much guilt about and it’s so misplaced. Pouches are amazing. They are super easy.

Corinne

Wait, can I as a fully grown adult without children just have a refresher on what a pouch is? I think I know, but I don’t feel confident. 

Virginia

So, pouches took over the baby food market like maybe 10-15 years ago. 

Corinne

Okay, so it’s just baby food in a pouch?

Virginia

Yes. You know how you’ll get yogurt in a pouch or applesauce in the pouch? There are all these baby food brands that make like kale and cherries and quinoa all kind of blended together. It’s usually mostly bananas and apples because then it’ll be sweet enough that kids will eat it. But there are other veggies in there. 

So it’s a complicated thing, right? Because basically the pouch as the vehicle took over the baby food market, versus little jars with spoons, because kids can self-feed with them, which makes them really great when you need your kid to be able to feed themselves, which is a goal of all of ours usually. I think there’s some health halo-ism going on where they get marketed as super healthy because they have all these vegetables in them and then the people who are really hyper about kids’ nutrition are like, no, no, no, no, it’s just apples and bananas and a smidge of kale. It’s not even a real vegetable serving, don’t serve your kid pouches and think they’re eating vegetables. 

And that whole debate I just have no interest in. But I think that’s what’s stressing this mom out. 

Corinne

Do they generally have added sugar? 

Virginia

No, I don’t think they really have a lot of added sugar. I’m sure there’s a mix. 

Corinne

I was just confused about the sugar volume comment. 

Virginia

It’s the bananas and apples. It’s because it’s mostly applesauce and people think applesauce is a sugar bomb. That’s the sugar.

Corinne

I’m so sick of people being so anti-fruit! Like, fruit is good for you. And it’s delicious. 

Virginia

Yes. And we know that when it comes to kids getting the nutrition they need from produce, it’s okay if they’re getting it mostly from fruit. It’s a lot of the same stuff that’s in vegetables and it’s easier to eat. So even if it is mostly apples, it still has some fiber, it still has vitamins, it’s fine. 

Corinne

It’s also just one of life’s few pleasures. 

Virginia

Corinne is now out to get every mom to eat the strawberries. So upset about our fruitless existence. The patriarchy is taking fruit from women. 

Corinne

We might need to get back into this with Bobby Parish. 

Virginia

We’ll circle back to that in a minute. I just want to bottom line on pouches and say: When my older daughter was learning to eat and getting off her feeding tube, pouches were our salvation. They were one of the first things she could self feed. And I have these really special memories of feeding her pouches at bedtime because this was a kid who couldn’t take a bottle. It was the first thing where we would like snuggle up and do a bedtime feed and it wasn’t the feeding tube. She was feeding herself the pouch and I was reading a bedtime story and it restored love and comfort to our feeding relationship. 

Corinne

That is so sweet. 

Virginia

I will die on team pouches mountain forever. That is my bias. And yeah, it’s making your life easier. There are feeding therapists who get concerned that kids who are only drinking from pouches are not developing other oral motor skills. There are nutritionist who get concerned that they’re not being exposed to the real form of the fruit and vegetable. And sure, sure, sure, if your child’s diet is 97 percent pouch-based and they’re two, you probably want to introduce some other solids and maybe look at if they could benefit from some feeding therapy to build out their oral motor skills. But if you’re using pouches as snacks, as a supplement in a meal, as a bedtime thing, this is completely fine. They’re great. They’re super awesome. They help kids feel independent around feeding. There’s no downside.

Corinne

Awesome. 

Virginia

Alright. I’ll read the next one.

I’m the mom of a seven month old baby. As he has been starting solid food, I have received a lot of advice—both solicited and not. One common theme repeated by everyone from the medical student at the pediatricians office to my mother-in-law is to introduce vegetables before fruit because if he gets a taste for the sweet stuff, you’ll never get him to eat vegetables. 

Man, we’re just on a theme today.

Corinne

Ah, this is why the rant was coming up because I read through the questions.

Virginia

At first this logic made sense. But the more I thought about it, it feels like diet culture for babies and some heavy moralizing about food that veggies are better than fruit. I realized there is no truly right answer here since we can’t pull the babies on their feelings. But I am curious about your take since this seems squarely in the parenting and diet culture wheelhouse. 

Corinne

Where did this fucking thing come from where fruit is not healthy? 

Virginia

I know, it’s so messed up. It’s so messed up. I can tell you where the baby sweetness thing came from. I’ve reported on a lot of this for The Eating Instinct. There’s a lot of research on how babies develop their palates, which does show that if you can expose them to a wider variety of flavors in the first year, there’s a correlation with those kids then eating a wider variety of foods later on. 

Corinne

But the study is not saying if you introduce them to fruit, they’ll never eat vegetables. 

Virginia

It’s definitely not saying that.

Corinne

It’s saying that you could consider feeding them a wider variety of things, which they may later develop a taste for. 

Virginia

Right. And they’re still going to stop eating at all when they’re a year and a half. They get picky because that’s what toddlers do. 

I mean, what is going to happen to the parents who take that really literally and they feed their babies 100 different foods—I mean you see these “100 foods for the first year” lists everywhere, like, it’s bonkers. You’re marching through and you’re like we have to expose them to fish and we have to expose them to flax. Those are the same parents who are then in a panic because they’re like, “They used to eat everything and now they will only eat Goldfish.” It’s like, that’s just how kids work. It’s just a thing. We should really have Amy Palanjian on here. She has many rants on this topic.

It’s also just making feeding babies so much goddamn work for parents, like so exhausting. The idea that if you offered a banana before you offered an avocado you somehow fucked up your kid is just, like, yeah. What if you just only had a banana in the house and you needed to feed your kids something? Do you not feed them because you’re like, yeah, it’s avocado day.

Corinne

Like the parents of seven month olds really need something else to stress about. 

Virginia

I mean, if you’re sleeping through the night at seven months old, I am impressed. So yeah, like, you really don’t. You’re barely sleeping. Starting solid foods should be fun. And it’s important to do but we just don’t need to be overthinking it to the degree that we are. 

Corinne

Yeah. And also the joy thing. Fruit is freaking delicious. Let your seven month old baby enjoy fruit. 

Virginia

Yeah, absolutely. Microwave some cherries. That’s actually pretty great early food. Mash them up a little bit. Don’t serve them whole cherries, I understand that’s a choking hazard, guys. I’m talking about like squishy, melty, frozen ones. 

Corinne

My 16 year old son is in recovery for anorexia. He’s doing really well, thank god. I have two other younger boys and I’m wondering how to proceed with weighing at the doctor’s. I don’t want them weighed, but I also know that it was my oldest son’s growth chart that helped us determine his healthy weight and the weight he needed to reach to be considered restored. If one of the other boys were to get sick, how would we know what their healthy weight range is without keeping track?

Virginia

I think it’s important to keep tabs on kids growth, not because we’re worried about them getting too big, but because yes, a drop in weight can be a real red flag of a lot of different health issues, and particularly, for eating disorders. So I think the solution here is to ask your doctor’s office to do blind weights, not to talk about weight or BMI in front of your kids. But that information will go on the discharge paper that you’ll get and just make sure they know that if they have a concern or something comes up, they should take you out of the room or set up a separate time to talk to you. This feels like it’s really important. Oona Hanson, who’s a great parent coach especially on eating disorders in teens, she has often flagged when we talked about scales in the past that it’s important to keep tabs on kids growth, because of this issue. Because kids who are vulnerable to eating disorders—I mean all kids are vulnerable to eating disorders. But you’ve had a recent family experience. So you’ve probably got the genetic component in play. And yeah, you want to make sure you catch any big drops. 

Corinne

Yeah, that’s good advice. Big fluctuations in weight as an adult can also be a sign. And that is a reason that some people might want to be weighed at the doctors office. But adults can also ask for blind weights.

Virginia

Oh, and I just want to footnote the “healthy weight” phrasing, which is not the optimal language because the idea of a healthy weight comes with a lot of connotations. I don’t think this question asker means, like, thin, I think she literally just means whether they fell off their growth curve or lost weight in an alarming way. So, just to clarify that language choice. 

Fat Fashion Questions

Alright. Let’s do some fashion questions. I’m going to read the next one.

Have you seen the recent Summersalt swimsuit catalog? It has this massive body positivity focus: plus size models, disabled models, older models, fat models, diverse race models, even a Down Syndrome model. Each model is a somebody as designated in their blurb. A journalist, entrepreneur, author, influencer Olympian activist. So first, I looked at it and thought, wow, this is amazing. I’ve never seen a catalog like this, and they are so darn inclusive. And then I thought, wait a minute, would there be a catalog of men and diverse bodies with their guts hanging over their swimsuits, proudly proclaiming CEO, journalist, inventor? Likely not. It just irked me. Were they being reduced to their bodies? And would that ever happen for men? And if proudly displaying their bodies, isn’t that a good thing? Or is it just sexist bullshit wrapped up in a whole new wrapping, or collapsing the body positivity movement? And yet would love your thoughts? The website has some of it but you really need to see the catalog.

Virginia

I think it is absolutely co-opting body positivity to sell swimsuits. And I’m happy about a diverse catalogue of models. 

Corinne

Yeah, I do think, the question of whether or not this would ever happen for men is a good one, though. 

Virginia

They don’t sell men’s clothes this way. 

Corinne

Yeah. But also like maybe it would be nice if they did. Like I do think body positivity or even just like plus size clothing for men is harder to find.

Virginia

Yeah, you’re right. It would be kind of great. Certainly more body diversity in men’s clothing brands would be great. 

Honestly, we can blame women’s magazines for this. Especially when I was working in them in the mid-2000’s there was this big push towards “we use real women.” First of all, that’s offensive because models are actually real women. They’re human beings, too. It’s this weird language to be like “she’s not a model, she’s a real woman.” It’s offensive to everybody.

We were always on these big pushes to cast “real women,” to the point that there are modeling agencies that specialize in models who look like “real women,” as opposed to being like fashion runway models, that body type. So often we would be doing a “real woman” story and it would be like a fashion story, right? But we wanted to do the same thing of putting little blurbs of like “Sophie is a yoga instructor.” And I would go to interview the “real woman” being shot in whatever outfit and I would be like, “what’s your job?” And she’d be like, “I’m a model.” And I’d be like, “can you say you’re something else?” Like, “any hobbies?” So it’s completely a stunt.

And when I say real women, like they were all ethereally beautiful. They were all markedly attractive but they were checking certain boxes of diversity, whether that meant being a size 12 or Black or having a visible disability. They were checking these boxes. 

Corinne

So maybe a little bit of tokenizing, too. 

Virginia

A lot. Quite a lot of tokenizing, I would say. Is it still progress over yet another swimsuit catalog full of zero body diversity? Yeah. Does it make me super excited about Summersalt as a brand? As discussed, they don’t make suits for boobs. And I have boobs. So no, I’m still unexcited. 

Corinne

All right. I’m going to read the next one. 

I’m in my feelings just a little bit about moving back to Dallas after five years living in Colorado. It was a culture shock on our way to the mountains, they are very comfort and function forward here, no matter the setting. And I’m preparing for the thought of re acclamation. I guess I feel insecure about Wayfinding in a setting where maybe I do want to be dressy sometimes. But I also don’t have much experience in being fat and comfortably dressed in a world where how you look is the highest value. So I guess my question is one part fashion. I’d love to add some cute dresses and one part cheerleader encouragement request. How do I get back into this world and hang on to the relaxation I’ve established with my body?

Virginia

I love that we’re afraid to go to Texas.

Corinne

I do think that’s valid, though. Different places have really different cultures around what’s acceptable. 

Virginia

And I think Dallas has been Dallas for a long time. Obviously, it’s a more diverse city than we’re talking about. But I mean, my experiences of going to Dallas are that it seems to be exclusively shopping mall, so I can imagine that the beauty culture is quite intense there.

It’s interesting that Colorado was so much more relaxing, though, because I feel like Colorado actually has a lot of diet culture. Very fitness-y.

Corinne

As someone who is a neighbor of Colorado, I’m like, ugh. 

Virginia

I feel like it’s all hardcore rock climbers. 

Corinne

Very Patagonia. 

Virginia

Which, Patagonia is not a non-diet culture brand. I mean, they only go up to an XL. 

Corinne

And it’s the smallest size XL. 

Virginia

Oh my God, it’s so tiny.

But that said, I’m glad you had a good experience in your part of Colorado and now you’re preparing for re-acclimation. I think it’s about finding your fat community as fast as possible.

Corinne

That is what I was going to say, too.

Virginia

Dallas people, let’s hear it in the comments because this person needs some fat community and there has got to be a fat swim or I don’t know if you hike in Dallas because I don’t know if they have mountains there, but some kind of outdoor activity group, something, a book club that you can join to start. 

Corinne

I also do think there’s some crossover between cute dresses and comfortable clothing. 

Virginia

Oh, for sure. I think a lot of people love a dress for comfortable clothing. I have some very cute ones from Target. I think they do great summer dresses and in Dallas you can wear summer dresses like all year round pretty much. So that’s one thought. 

If you want higher end very fun dresses Wray is a great size inclusive brand. 

What cute dresses are you seeing right now?

Corinne

Um, great question. I was thinking like the Eileen Fishery stuff. 

Virginia

Oh, yeah, yeah. 

Corinne

It’s comfortable but also you look nice.

Virginia

What I really relate to in this question is, I struggle a lot with—this is like what I wrote in the whole essay with worrying I will feel appropriate in a certain context and feeling like I need to match the context. And I think—and I say this, like, as someone who’s very much working on this. I don’t really know the answer, but I think the answer is probably something like, be okay being yourself across all contexts. Don’t feel the need to change for the context. If you enjoy wearing comfortable clothes in Colorado, you can wear some version of the same clothes in Texas. They don’t actually kick you out of the state for wearing whatever it is you’re wearing in Colorado. But it is a hard thing to do. It’s hard. 

Corinne

And I do think there is added pressure on fat people to try and look “nice” or dressy so people don’t think you’re a “fat slob” or whatever. 

Virginia

Absolutely. Absolutely. 

Corinne

Which sucks. But also, you know, you say maybe you do want to be dressy sometimes. And you should because it’s fun. 

Virginia

Absolutely. Eloquii often does some good dresses, too. They are another one, definitely. They do a lot of fun dresses. Bright colors. I’m trying to think who else I like for dresses.

Corinne

What’s the one you have?

Virginia

Oh, The Kit! I can only quasi shout them out. I wear the 3x, so they’re not super inclusive. But if you’re small fat, they’re good. 

Nordstrom, also, obviously. It’s like a whole mishmash but I’ve gotten some good dresses on there. If you really drill in on your size and if you really filter your search results you can find some decent stuff on there. And they do carry just a million dresses.

Corinne

Also, I feel like jumpsuits can be more comfortable than dresses because you have the fabric between your legs.

Virginia

You do. That is how jumpsuits work.

Corinne

Yeah, but they can also be dressy. 

Virginia

Yes, I will say if you’re going to wear a dress and not have fabric between your legs, both Snag Tights and Universal Standard make thin, thigh chafing shorts which are salvation. I just don’t wear a dress without them anymore because it’s such a difference comfort wise. 

Corinne

Oh, Universal Standard is another good dressy, comfortable recommendation. 

Virginia

I will shout out their Geneva dress. It is like a t-shirt dress. It comes in a tank style, V neck style or crewneck style. There was a crewneck striped one I have been so close to buying so many times this summer. They keep texting me and being like it’s on sale. And I’m like I don’t need another dress, stay strong. But maybe you, listener, need the Geneva crewneck dress because it’s so cute. I do already own two Geneva dresses, which is another one. And they are so comfortable.

Corinne

They have a slightly asymmetrical hem?

Virginia

They have the symmetrical hem. It’s nice because it’s something about the way that hem hangs, it’s not super clingy. It’s a little bit loose but not like flowy, prairie night gown loose, which, sometimes you want something a little more polished than that.

I do have one problem with mine, though, which is I’ve gotten a very specific kind of stain on it and I can’t get it out.

Corinne

Oh, is it an oil stain? 

Virginia

Yes, it’s the oil stain and when that jersey fabric gets those oil stains…

Corinne

Yeah, I only know because I have so many of their t shirts and I have the oil stain right here on every one.

Virginia

Yes. So my navy V-neck Geneva dress that I love so much, has like three of those stains right now and I’m not wearing it and if anyone knows how to get those stains out I need that.

Corinne

Yeah, me too.

Virginia

But yeah, Geneva dress. That’s a good one for you for Texas. Feels very Dallas.

It’s Not NOT A Diet: Bobby Approved

Virginia

Alright, we are going to do our new slash old segment. It’s not not a diet, and so basically y’all can send us diets you want us to look at. This is Corinne and I looking at the marketing, giving you our hot take responses debunking it as a diet just based on basic principles of what makes something a diet.

 So, this person writes:

Have you heard of the Bobby approved app? It sounds to me like disguised diet culture, but I have a family member who will now only eat Bobby approved foods and it’s been difficult to navigate on family vacation.

I don’t even need to look it up, If there is some guy named Bobby telling you how to eat, it’s a diet. Why does some dude named Bobby get to decide what your food is? 

Corinne

Oh my God. So I got extremely interested in this because I had never heard of it. So let me just tell you who he is. He’s a YouTuber. 

Virginia

Bobby Parrish is his name? 

Corinne

Yes. I also then downloaded his Bobby Approved app. 

Virginia

Oh, you did! 

Corinne

Would you like to hear some things which are approved and not approved? 

Virginia

I would love this. I just need to say that in his bio, he describes himself as “an authority in the kitchen and a grocery shopping expert,” which I’m pretty sure is all women socialized to feed their families. So again, why does Bobby get this credibility? 

Corinne

Okay, would you like to guess as to whether Whole Foods brand hummus is Bobby approved? 

Virginia

I mean, it’s hummus. 

Corinne

It’s not approved. 

Virginia

What does he have against the chickpea? The humble chickpea!

Corinne

Would you like to guess as to whether jarred tomato sauce is Bobby approved?

Virginia

I’m sure it’s not!

Corinne

It is.

Virginia

What? But they always get mad at tomato sauce because of sugar, because the fruit!

Corinne

White bread, not approved. White flour, approved. 

Virginia

Okay, Bobby.

Corinne

Would you like to guess as to whether seven grain lentils grain mix is approved? 

Virginia

I do not even know what a seven grain lentil mix is!

Corinne

Not approved. It’s like a package of microwavable grains or something

Virginia

Oh well sure, that’s going to be too processed for him.

Corinne

Seaweed snacks? Not approved. 

Virginia

No. Because of the salt? Because of the sea?

Corinne

I just could not figure it out.

Virginia

There is no rhyme or reason. 

Corinne

So then, because I was just scanning stuff in my pantry. This vegan chickpea meal? Not approved.

There are a lot of YouTube videos of him like going to Costco and being like, here are the best anti-inflammatory foods and it’s keto chocolate and stuff like that. 

Virginia

Oh, Lord. 

Corinne

And I will say, one thing in my pantry that was not approved? Whey protein powder. 

Virginia

But diet culture loves whey protein powder!

Corinne

And guess what he sells on his website? 

Virginia

No, he doesn’t! 

Corinne

Whey protein powder. 

Virginia

Oh my god, Bobby. Come on, Bobby. 

Corinne

He’s definitely a big time scammer.

Virginia

He’s so bro-y.

Corinne

He looks stressed. A lot of what he’s peddling is fear mongering. Like, “this stuff is toxic.” There are also a ton of people on Reddit being like, “This guy gave me orthorexia.”

Virginia

Yeah, I bet. 

Corinne

Don’t listen to him and don’t download the app. 

Virginia

Don’t do this to your pantry. I’m just reading another bio line here. “Bobby Parrish is a passionate home cook, who went to the best culinary school around his mom’s kitchen.” Like, just, gag. Come on. Don’t blame your mom. 

Corinne

Yes. He has no nutrition training just to be clear.

Virginia

Then he says he “wanted to be on the Food Network badly. When they rejected his application for the next Food Network Star, he decided to start a YouTube channel.” So his qualifications are his mom fed him as a child and he got rejected by the Food Network. 

Corinne

Yeah, he worked in finance. That’s what he did. He quit his job in finance to start a YouTube channel.

Virginia

Oh my gosh I can’t stop laughing. This is so funny. 

Corinne

There was also another big controversy that I found online. It’s the video of him in the grocery store being like “this stuff is toxic.” One of the things he called toxic was Quaker Oats . He was like, “they spray Roundup on everything.” And one of the farmers who grows the oats reached out to him and was like, “Can you not do this because we actually don’t spray Roundup on our oats. We Grow oats for Quaker oats and these are good oats.” And he was like, “I’m not going to apologize,” basically. 

Virginia

He almost Oprah’ed the oats industry! And he’s like, I will not retract that statement. 

Corinne

Yeah, just a lot of fear-mongering.

Virginia

Oh, he’s got kids. Oh, it makes me sad when they have kids and they’re doing this to kids.

Yeah,this is a diet. This is 100%. And I guess the is it a diet question is like, as far as we know he’s not saying you should eat this way to lose weight. But he’s saying you should eat this way to lose weight. And also, he’s making eating so hard. Just don’t outsource your food choices to a guy named Bobby.

Corinne

Why is his protein powder okay, but not the one I have in my pantry?

Virginia

Well, because you don’t have the one his mom used in her kitchen when she fed him as a child and made him a food expert.

Corinne

Virginia. It’s more like I don’t have the one that he makes money from.

Virginia

Correct. He is not sponsored by the brand you buy.

Corinne

Yeah, so that was upsetting. Don’t Google it, everyone. 

Butter

Virginia

I will start while Corinne tries to remember what her Butter is. It’s actually a very high stakes segment, people don’t understand.

But my butter is: I’m about to embark on a very exciting journey that I may or may not take the newsletter along with. We are renovating my childhood dollhouse. 

I have been looking forward to this since before I had children. I was obsessed with my dollhouse as a kid. My grandparents built it for me in like the early 90’s. And it has been falling apart in first my parents basement and now my basement for many years. 

And I decided this is the year. My kids are about to be six and ten. These are the peak dollhouse years. We’re past the toddler man handling stage. We have some executive function where we can make decisions together. I’m so excited.

So we kicked it off with Beatrix and I, on our New York City weekend, went to the Tiny Dollhouse store in New York City, which is delightful. And I spent way too much on tiny, cute boxes of doughnuts and tiny cats and dogs. It’s so fun.

And then when Violet got back from sleep-away camp, we went down to the basement, we looked at the dollhouse, we started talking. So they’re each going to be totally in charge of a room that they can do however they want. And then we’re going to have to agree cohesively about things like exterior colors.

And yeah, I’ll put a before picture in the show notes. It’s going to be a long project. It’s a real fixer upper. But we are all in and I do want tips from anyone. 

I did a more preschooler friendly dollhouse project for them—well, for Violet—when she was three, and then that got handed down to Beatrix. So I’ve done a dollhouse project before. But I don’t know how to do it without spending a million dollars. 

So I would like people’s advice on how to not turn this into another super expensive hobby as I am very clearly are really good at adopting those. 

Corinne

That sounds really fun. 

Virginia

We’re going to decorate little rooms and find cute little things. I think we can make a lot of stuff. It does have foundational issues so I’m working on that right now. It’s going to be a journey. 

Corinne

Okay, my question is, is there like dollhouse/garden crossover? Will the dollhouse get a garden? 

Virginia

Well, I’m glad you asked. So, it did not have a garden when I was a kid. It’s a Victorian with a wraparound porch and it has a tower. The porch has disintegrated and fallen off, though. So now it has like the base of a porch around it. And I was first going to try to like reconstruct the gingerbread style Victorian porch. But I’m now thinking instead garden all around the base of the house. 

One thing to know about my kids is they don’t care about dolls at all. In fact, Violet is actually very creeped out by dolls. I was a big doll kid so I have all these porcelain dolls in the basement. They want nothing to do with them.

But so our dollhouse family is a family of mice and rabbits and Violet is mostly interested in how she can add more animals to the dollhouse. So she has requested a chicken coop and a koi pond.

Corinne

Wow. That’s awesome. 

Virginia

So there will definitely be a garden. And I’m debating like a first I was going to do all fake plants, but then I was like, maybe I can do some real little tiny plants.

Corinne

Oh my god, I love it. Little tiny succulents or something.

Virginia

Or air plants. I don’t know. Maybe I can attach some kind of small planter, but I don’t know. 

Corinne

How big is it? 

Virginia

Oh, it’s huge. That’s the other problem. I don’t know where it’s going to live. It’s three stories. It was like the biggest present I ever got in my childhood.

Corinne

And it like splits open?

Virginia

No, it’s, it’s even more unwieldy than that. It’s L-shaped and you stand in the opening of the L and like look at both sides of the rooms. It looks like crap right now because it’s been dying in my basement for years. But yeah, so it’s like L shaped and it doesn’t open and close. So what I already got, though—this is how I know I can spend a fortune on this project—is I did for $60 invest in a turntable. There’s such thing as a dollhouse turntable. So it can sit on that.

Corinne

It’s just like puzzling, a puzzling turntable. 

Virginia

My life is full of hobby-related turntables.

Corinne

Fine motor skill hobbies that require turntables. Okay, I have not remembered my original butter but I’m going to recommend something else. 

Virginia

We’re here for it,.

Corinne

Which we have sort of talked about on here before but I recently was needing some socks and I ordered these socks from Shiny By Nature. Have you seen that brand? 

Virginia

No. 

Corinne

Okay. they have these socks, super socks and they’re specifically designed for people with larger calves. But they’re not tall. They’re kind of like a nice height ankle and they are cute colors. They come in a ton of really cute colors and I do find them like really comfortable. Since I’ve gotten them, I have basically just been wearing them and now I kind of just want to order a bunch more.

I have a few of the cute colors, but I’m mostly liking the white ones. I feel like they look really cute with like white sneakers or whatever. 

Virginia

Yeah, they are a good height. 

Corinne

Yes, I’m recommending these super socks. They don’t leave a mark on my ankle, which I think is also nice.

Virginia

This is a great Butter. I also didn’t know anything about this brand and now I’m excited to discover this brand. 

Corinne

Yeah, they have some other stuff that is like “solving a problem.” Like they have jeans that are like specifically designed for people with like really big waist to butt ratio, which as discussed, not my problem, but yeah, they are cute. I have a shirt from them, it’s a white button down but it has a heart pocket and heart buttons. So they just have some cute, different stuff. 

Virginia

This looks like a great company and the prices are very reasonable. The socks are $6.50 which, you can’t buy Bombas for that.

Corinne

I think they’re just a cotton blend. And they’re stretchy, but they’re good socks.

Virginia

All right, I think we did an episode. Thank you so much for listening to Burnt Toast!

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1. Note from Corinne: I should have mentioned that there are lots of other ways in which sports try to make things “fair” and fail, like having gender categories that exclude trans people. Not to mention, can sports ever really be “fair” when large swaths of people have been historically excluded from them?

2. Note from Corinne: I was wrong, it’s this chair from Uline.

3. Note from Virginia: OK, this was story I was thinking of. She didn’t win the marathon, but also DIDN’T SHE. #icon.