At a time when debates over tariffs, regulation, and the scope of government are back at center stage. Is this time in American history unprecedented, or can we find parallels in the past? For example, has trade “hollowed out” U.S. manufacturing—or have fact tariffs like the Corn Laws in Britain hurt working-class families the most? Was the Great Depression a failure of capitalism—rather than a policy crisis worsened by poor monetary responses and overreach?

Today’s guest is Phil Gramm, a former U.S. Senator and author of “The Triumph of Economic Freedom.” We look at five periods of American history—the Industrial Revolution, Progressive Era, Great Depression, decline of America’s postwar preeminence in world trade, and the Great Recession—along with the existing levels of income inequality and poverty, leads many to believe in expanding government in American life. Gramm argues that the evidence points to a contrary verdict: government interference and failed policies pose the most significant threat to economic freedom.

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