lifestyle choices will come slowly perhaps and then rather more quickly as it becomes socially far more normalized gradually and then suddenly yeah exactly I but listen Justin you mentioned a little bit earlier about clean energy sources as one of the key themes of COP 28 this listener is wondering about an alternative to fossil fuels my name

is Heather and I'm from the state of Vermont in the US with nuclear fusion now having been achieved in the prospect of using it as a widespread source of infinite energy being projected in the next 25 to 30 or so years what updates and infrastructure will need to take place in advance to prepare us for a quick and smooth conversion to energy derived from nuclear fusion wow there are so many of some butts in this one just and it's been knocking around for decades it's got

to always 30 years away and look yeah they've proved they for the first time they've had an experiment which had an energy surplus on the energy put in not any of the embodied energy in constructing the device which was huge in the first place look it seems to me that we probably will be able to master nuclear fusion one day i.e. we'll be able to have long running reactions the reactions that take place within the reactor that generate a surplus of energy but it's hard to see given how difficult it is we've been trying to do this for like 70 years it's really really tricky it's hard to see how it's ever and this is a crucial word going to be economic right and at the moment as we've already discussed we've got you know box ready solutions solar and wind for example that we can start putting in place now that are already cheaper than fossil fuels so there's a really powerful economic argument for using them that would be great if we mastered fusion but i think let's let's buckle down with the things we've got and start making them work i'm not saying don't invest in fusion you know i believe in technology and i want the investments to be made but let's not think that it's going to happen i'm really sorry in 25 years it's probably not going to happen in 25 years no i was going to say i don't think it's and i think most experts agree that it's not going to happen in time for what we need for net zero in terms of 2050 do the simple things now which are getting better

and more economically viable and don't think about a pipe dream for future and i think the other thing right is that we're going to need lots of new technologies to be able to make this a reality this is a totally different kind of reaction than we see in conventional nuclear power plants so we're going to need new plants the grids going to have to be redesigned because it's going to have huge surges of power and then very little so there is some not only sort of some scientific things that we need to get going there are some technological and engineering things that we also need to solve before we can even think about it powering our grids

so