It's been there at will for a very, very long time and as the years have progressed it becomes just more and more of a part of every experience much more deeply and stably. So would you say that you always are in the state to some degree but the sort of amount you're in it fluctuates, sometimes it's more complete or? Yes. And just for the record even being in it totally stably I would call that, let's say it was perfectly stable at 100% depth all the time,. But that still doesn't mean they're liberated. Hm, interesting. What do you mean by liberated in this case? Well we can still have material in the deep

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