Comparing Magicians and Meditators in Psi Experiments

Magic and Science with Dean Radin

Dean Radin, PhD, is chief scientist at the Institute of Noetic Science in Novato, California. He is author of The Conscious Universe, Entangled Minds, Supernormal, and Real Magic.

In this conversation, Dr. Dean Radin explores the intersection of magic and science, showing how ancient practices of intention and attention parallel modern findings in parapsychology and quantum physics. He discusses his experiments with magicians and meditators, revealing evidence that consciousness can subtly influence light, matter, and even biological systems. Dr. Radin also reflects on the ethical and spiritual implications of these findings, suggesting that the pursuit of real magic ultimately leads toward compassion, wisdom, and service.

00:00:00 Introduction
00:01:46 Breaking taboos between science and magic
00:06:34 Experiments with magicians and meditators
00:17:05 Coincidences, synchronicity, and funding “magic”
00:25:12 Consciousness interaction with photons
00:27:25 Blessing experiments with chocolate, tea, and water
00:32:06 Challenges of replication and epistemology
00:36:05 Chaos magic and mathematical theory
00:39:12 Metal bending and the mystery of intention
00:46:22 Divination, retrocausation, and how magic may work
01:06:02 Conclusion

New Thinking Allowed host, Jeffrey Mishlove, PhD, is author of The Roots of Consciousness, Psi Development Systems, and The PK Man. Between 1986 and 2002 he hosted and co-produced the original Thinking Allowed public television series. He is the recipient of the only doctoral diploma in “parapsychology” ever awarded by an accredited university (University of California, Berkeley, 1980). He is also the Grand Prize winner of the 2021 Bigelow Institute essay competition regarding the best evidence for survival of human consciousness after permanent bodily death. He is Co-Director (with Callum Cooper) of Parapsychology Education at the California Institute for Human Science.

(Recorded on October 30, 2025)

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