Evolving Without Knowing the End

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On the release of his latest thriller, The Viper: A Zig and Nola Novel, Brad Meltzer joins Joe for an in-depth conversation on writing, curiosity, service, and the often-hidden moments that shape a life. From bestselling thrillers to children’s books, Meltzer reflects on how stories—both real and imagined—help us make sense of who we are, what we’ve lived through, and the paths we choose moving forward.

Drawing on his own unlikely origin story, Meltzer shares how a single teacher’s encouragement set him on the path to becoming a writer, why falling in love with the process matters more than chasing outcomes, and how curiosity has been the throughline of his career. They explore how paying attention—to people, details, and quiet acts of kindness—can open doors we didn’t even know existed.

The conversation also dives into Meltzer’s deep connection to the military community, from his work with the USO to the research behind his Zig and Nola thriller series set at Dover Air Force Base. Together, Joe and Brad discuss service, sacrifice, grief, and why storytelling can help destigmatize mental health struggles—especially for those transitioning out of uniform.

In this episode, Brad Meltzer and Joe also explore:

• How one teacher’s belief can change the trajectory of a life
• Why curiosity is a more powerful tool than talent
• Falling in love with the process—not the outcome—of creative work
• What writing thrillers has taught Meltzer about human nature
• Why Dover Air Force Base became the heart of his Zig and Nola series
• How small acts of kindness ripple outward in unexpected ways
• The challenge of transitioning from a life of constant motion to stillness
• Why seeking help is a sign of strength, not weakness
• How reading builds empathy, critical thinking, and resilience
• Why transformation is the hardest, and most important, kind of change

Whether you’re a writer, a leader, a veteran, or someone navigating a transition, this conversation is a reminder that paying attention, staying curious, and honoring the quiet work of becoming can lead to a life richer than any plan you could have written in advance.

Watch the full episode on Youtube! 

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