This week, CIO of Bitwise Matt Hougan joins the show to discuss fading the power of the four-year cycle, the accelerating wave of institutional adoption, and whether Strategy selling its Bitcoin is a real risk. Matt also weighs in on the Santi-Haseeb L1 debate, balancing token value with investment, and what he thinks drives the next phase of growth. Enjoy!

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Follow Matt: https://x.com/Matt_Hougan

CIO Memo: https://bit.ly/4pK4gmC

Follow Jason: https://x.com/JasonYanowitz

Follow Santi: https://x.com/santiagoroel

Follow Empire: https://twitter.com/theempirepod

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This Empire episode is brought to you by VanEck.
Learn more about the VanEck Onchain Economy ETF (NODE): http://vaneck.com/EmpireNODE
An investment in the Fund involves substantial risk and is not suitable for all investors. You may lose your entire principal investment. The Fund may invest nearly all of its net assets in Digital Transformation Companies and/or Digital Asset Instruments but does not invest in digital assets or commodities directly.
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Timestamps

00:00 Intro

03:28 2026 vs The Four Year Cycle

05:06 Bitcoin Covered Call Strategy

07:44 The Case Against The 4-Year Cycle

11:14 Ads (Zcash, Katana)

12:31 Will Strategy Sell Its Bitcoin?

16:36 Inside The Institutional Mind

24:24 How Advisors Think About Crypto

27:40 The Best Stories In Crypto

30:23 Ads (Zcash, Katana)

31:39 Risk-First Investing

33:01 L1 Debate: Haseeb vs Santi

36:19 Balancing Token Value & Investment

40:16 Ads (VanEck, Uniswap)

41:58 Zcash & The Privacy Narrative

44:29 The Future Of ICOs

46:55 The Token-Equity Convergence

48:19 Final Thoughts

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Disclaimer: Nothing said on Empire is a recommendation to buy or sell securities or tokens. This podcast is for informational purposes only, and any views expressed by anyone on the show are solely our opinions, not financial advice. Santiago, Jason, and our guests may hold positions in the companies, funds, or projects discussed.

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