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In this episode, Mike interviews retired Air Force Colonel John Warden.
John is an Air Force pioneer who shaped how the modern world thinks about warfare—specifically the concepts of the operational level of war, parallel attack, and centers of gravity. He is most noted as the creator of Warden’s Five Rings and the architect of the Gulf War air campaign—but there’s much more than that.
We talked about how his thoughts were shaped in Vietnam and the 1980s, how he ended up in the Pentagon, and what series of events led to his framework being used to create Operation Desert Storm.
We applied the real lessons from Desert Storm to discuss China, why it’s a strategic threat, and the blind spot in US national security.
If you’re into history, strategy, warfare, military tactics,
and national security—this episode is for you.
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Show Notes
01:31 intro
03:31 Vietnam experience
05:56 Vietnam reshaped the Air Force
10:36 post-Vietnam thinking about the Middle East
13:56 command structure in the 1980s
16:14 Bitburg to Georgia to Italy
17:38 the 5 Rings - War College origins
18:13 missing the operational level of war
26:17 Warden's 5 rings
29:36 the other usefulness of the 5 rings
32:13 Checkmate
34:25 Checkmate, 5 Rings, and the Soviet Union
35:20 Fuel and the Fulda Gap
39:37 context for Desert Storm
42:44 Checkmate and Desert Storm
45:34 Checkmate gets into Desert Storm
48:26 the original 3-week plan
54:01 Not learning from Desert Storm?
57:24 today's challenges
58:29 China revelation #1
1:00:44 The Gulf War...on US soil
1:02:41 The US cyber vulnerability
1:06:52 China 2027 2035 2049
1:08:36 homeland defense blindspot
1:09:49 coastal defense
1:11:38 self-deterrence?
1:14:42 global reach global power
1:17:48 commitment to defense
1:18:51 outro
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