Barbara f walter is a leading expert on international security, with an emphasis on civil wars. Her most recent book is the subject of our conversation, how civil wars start and how to stop them. The economic sanctions that took so long to institute against south africa ended up being really effective. Political control was transferred to the black majority. It reminds me of amanda gorman's poem lines, somehow we've weathered and witnessed a nation that isn't broken, but simply unfinished.

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