Having fun, but also pioneering new ways to have fun and then sharing those and building community around them. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, I think that that's, you know, maybe I'm just trying to reenact my childhood, but I would say, you know, when you're a kid, you and your buddies start, you know, you start body surfing and, you know, whatever you, whatever activities you're doing together and you feed off each other and then you go, you know, then you get a little older and you start doing more advanced things. But yeah, I think it's, it's, it's, you know, I mean, the fact that I'm always looking for new things, I think speaks more to maybe wanting to do things I haven't done before, then it does really, I mean, I don't think there's definitely not a conscious, like there's not a deliberate effort to try to like to, to be doing things that, you know, that other people aren't doing. I think it's just more, it just ends up being, it's more out of wanting to do things I haven't done before. And I think to do that, you end up doing things that probably other people aren't doing.

Can you walk us through, I mean, this is a foiling podcast with other themes involved, but in that light, can you walk us through the inception, the first points of in of understanding that the foil could be a thing in the surf. I mean, I've heard Dave Kalama's side of that story, but I'd love to hear it from your side.

Yeah, I mean, it's, you know, like a lot of ideas, at least ideas I've been involved with in surfing. It usually, they usually happen when it's flat because you're not surfing. And so you're it's in the middle of summer, or, you know, there's a flat spell and then you're looking for, you know, other ways to occupy yourself and tell you the surf comes again. And so in the case of foiling, we had been, you know, we were obviously we were towing and towing was a big focus. It was in the summertime. And I'm not sure. I think it was Brett Lickell said that he saw our one of our friends said they saw this contraption in this guy's garage. I guess it was up in Pucalani on Maui and it was like, he's I just remember his words. It had spider webs on it. And it was sitting in the corner, but it was a, it was a hydrofoil looking device. And if I'm not mistaken, it was the original air chair. So it was like one of the very first air chairs. And so I said, well, get that thing. Ask that guy if we can borrow it and get it and let's go, you know, let's go play on it. And, and so he, he, the guy said, okay, yeah, no problem. Just, you know, don't break it.