I actually think that we are a stupider civilization because we're drowning in the info torrent and you know being buried by spin when we need. We will need to make some active measures in order to sort our way through this, he says. There's a lot of information like that trapped in pattern languages and books and websites and PDFs I say information goes to die in PDFs as wellHow do we bring it into the commons and then make it alive and useful in these different kinds of ways so that we can apply it to our lives and make better lives for everybody that's one of my goals for this space anything I would like to say as a wrap up to the conversation this