Why Testing Improves Design

This interview was recorded for the GOTO Book Club.
http://gotopia.tech/bookclub

Read the full transcription of the interview here:
https://gotopia.tech/episodes/383

Pragmatic Dave Thomas - Pragmatic Programmer Turned Publisher
Sarah Taraporewalla - CTO APAC at Thoughtworks

RESOURCES
Dave
https://pragdave.me
https://twitter.com/pragdave
https://github.com/pragdave
https://linkedin.com/in/dave-thomas-53aa1057

Sarah
https://sarahtaraporewalla.com
https://twitter.com/sarahtarap
https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarahtaraporewalla
https://github.com/staraporf

Links
https://pragprog.com
https://agilemanifesto.org

DESCRIPTION
Sarah Taraporewalla (CTO APAC at Thoughtworks) sits down with programming legend Dave Thomas—co-founder of The Pragmatic Programmer and co-creator of principles like DRY (Don't Repeat Yourself)—to discuss his latest book "Simplicity."

Dave reveals why he believes "Agile is Dead" and shares his disillusionment with how agile practices have become rigid, corporate processes rather than the flexible, value-driven approach originally envisioned in the Agile Manifesto he helped create. The conversation centers around his new Orient-Step-Learn framework, designed to help individual developers master true simplicity through deliberate practice and feedback loops, emphasizing that real simplicity requires mastery and cannot be achieved overnight.

Dave advocates for developers to take personal agency, reduce unnecessary dependencies, and focus on what they can control rather than waiting for organizational change, arguing that simplicity is ultimately about cutting away complexity to reveal elegant, minimal solutions.

RECOMMENDED BOOKS
Dave Thomas • simplicity • https://amzn.to/43FghBJ
Dave Thomas & Andy Hunt • The Pragmatic Programmer • https://amzn.to/43QuMBj
Dave Snowden & Friends • Cynefin • https://amzn.to/3FSnF3

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