i think we can even go farther than just saying, well, here's some moral, philosophical arguments against slavery. You know, ask to ask the woman who in a moslem country if she wants to be confined to to wearing aburka for her entire life. So this kind of overlap of facts and value, science and morality ought from is the naturalistic fallacy and all that. But you really can't learn much from value discourse if you don't shed those immune, disruptive ideas first.

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