This is actually the first time since we started this podcast back in two thousand 16 that we've done a series focused on this topic. In many instances, churches may over rely on teaching to help people become more like jesus. This may be the easiest place a pastor can make changes to help the church fulfil its mission. So with that foundation for to day's conversation, i want to introduce the pastor i interviewed on to day's topic. Last week, i had the opportunity to connect with rick warren - founding and senior pastor of saddle back church in orange county, california. As you'll hear in the conversation, his days of preaching and teaching actually started well before

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