What is interpersonal effectiveness and the DEAR formula?

How are punk rock and dialectical behavior therapy (DBT) related? More than you think. In this episode, clinical psychologist and bestselling author Dr. J.J. Kelly — the “punk rock doc” — joins the conversation to break down DBT with raw honesty, humor, and zero fluff.

Far from a gimmick, DBT is an evidence-based therapy that blends mindfulness and cognitive behavioral therapy to help people regulate emotions, improve relationships, and move through life’s inevitable pain without making things worse. DBT isn’t just for young people or people with borderline personality disorder — it’s a practical skill set that anyone can use, from corporate execs to teens, from those struggling with bipolar disorder to anyone wanting stronger emotional intelligence.

Listener takeaways include:

• why DBT isn’t a fad but a powerful, science-backed approach

• how to use the four DBT modules: mindfulness, distress tolerance, emotion regulation, and interpersonal effectiveness

• how validation, radical acceptance, and even anger can become tools for connection and growth
  

Whether you’re curious about mental health treatments, skeptical of “newer” therapies, or just intrigued by the mashup of punk rock and psychology, this episode will leave you rethinking what emotional resilience really means.

Cold Open Transcript:

Gabe Howard: Behavioral therapy kind of makes sense. But what is DBT?

Dr. J.J. Kelly: It's basically Zen mindfulness meets cognitive behavior therapy.

Gabe Howard: And how do those two things merge?
Dr. J.J. Kelly: Oh, beautifully. The mindfulness skills and the distress tolerance skills are the Zen stuff. And then the CBT is emotion regulation and interpersonal effectiveness skills. The assertiveness training, how to ask for things, how to say no in accordance with your values in the most effective way possible.

Our guest, Dr. JJ Kelly, is a licensed clinical psychologist, EQ coach, and bestselling author making mental health accessible, fun, and stigma-free. Known as "The Punk Rock Doc," she blends humor, authenticity, and evidence-based techniques to help people build emotional resilience and take charge of their lives.

As founder of UnorthoDocs, Inc., Dr. Kelly created a vibrant community where young adults learn to manage emotions, build confidence, and cultivate healthier relationships — without outdated therapy methods. Her expertise in Dialectical Behavior Therapy (DBT) empowers people to break free from self-doubt and master their emotions. A sought-after speaker and educator, she’s authored multiple books and helps thousands transform their lives through courses, coaching, and radical honesty. Her mission: disrupt outdated systems and teach people to be their own therapists.

Our host, Gabe Howard, is an award-winning writer and speaker who lives with bipolar disorder. He is the author of the popular book, "Mental Illness is an Asshole and other Observations," available from Amazon; signed copies are also available directly from the author. Gabe is also the host of the "Inside Bipolar" podcast with Dr. Nicole Washington.

Gabe makes his home in the suburbs of Columbus, Ohio. He lives with his supportive wife, Kendall, and a Miniature Schnauzer dog that he never wanted, but now can’t imagine life without. To book Gabe for your next event or learn more about him, please visit gabehoward.com.

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