"We're all vulnerable. And I hadn't thought about that previously. I thought, oh, it's only a small group of people who might fall for this. What I've learned is actually [that] these scammers are so sophisticated. They have so much money. Based on my reporting, this industry, you know, is maybe more lucrative than the illicit drug trade, and these criminal syndicates might be making over 500 billion US dollars a year. So that means they have access to the latest technology, whether it's voice cloning or face changing software. They can buy the latest in AI tools. they can stay several steps ahead of most law enforcement organizations in most places in the world, and, you know, re-invest in their businesses, because that's how they view what they're doing. They just see this as a business line, and they want to make a profit. That's why we called the podcast Scam Inc, because I think the way to understand what we're seeing is that this is an industry and everyone's driven by profits. So the fact that the criminals have so much money makes it really difficult for governments, police or international organizations or banks or crypto exchanges or social media companies to tackle this huge and growing problem." - Sue-Lin Wong
Fresh out of the studio, Sue-Lin Wong, Southeast Asia Correspondent for The Economist, joins us to uncover the dark world of online scams and how they’ve evolved into a $500 billion global crime industry. She shares her investigative journey behind Scam Inc., her latest podcast series, revealing how cybercriminal syndicates operate like multinational corporations—leveraging AI, crypto, and human trafficking to fuel their scams. Sue-Lin explains why Southeast Asia has become a hub for these illicit operations, the psychological manipulation that makes anyone vulnerable, and the deep-rooted connections between scamming, money laundering, and political corruption. We discuss the Kansas bank collapse, the rise of pig butchering scams, and how law enforcement struggles to keep up with decentralized criminal networks. Closing the conversation, Sue-Lin highlights what individuals, governments, and financial institutions must do to fight back against the next wave of AI-powered fraud.
Audio Episode Highlights: [00:00:46] – Opening Quote by Wong Sue-Lin #QOTD [00:02:12] – Bernard’s Introduction & Podcast Overview [00:03:09] – Sue-Lin’s Journalism Journey: From Reuters to The Economist [00:05:58] – The Birth of Scam Inc.: Investigating the Industry [00:07:16] – The Changing Face of Crime: The ‘Gig Economy’ of Scamming [00:10:13] – The Meaning of ‘Pig Butchering’ Scams & Their Chinese Origins [00:14:34] – How COVID-19 Turned Scams Into a Global Epidemic [00:16:33] – Inside Scam Compounds: The Story of Rita from the Philippines [00:21:15] – The Alice Guo Scandal: Political Corruption & Scams in the Philippines [00:25:33] – How Scammers Launder Billions & The Role of Crypto [00:30:14] – Why Crypto Isn’t as Anonymous as Criminals Think [00:35:46] – AI-Driven Scams: The Next Frontier of Cybercrime [00:42:10] – Solutions: What Governments & Companies Must Do [00:44:46] – How Individuals Can Protect Themselves [00:50:46] – Final Thoughts & The Future of Scam Inc.
Profile: Sue-Lin Wong, Southeast Asia Correspondent, The Economist LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/suelinwong/ , Host of "Scam Inc" podcast series by The Economist: https://www.economist.com/audio/podcasts/scam-inc [Subscription Required]. Picture Credits in Marketing Image: Logo from The Economist Podcasts.
Podcast Information: Bernard Leong hosts and produces the show. The proper credits for the intro and end music are "Energetic Sports Drive." G. Thomas Craig mixed and edited the episode in both video and audio format. Here are the links to watch or listen to our podcast.
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