"I think stories are the way we shift the Overton window — so widen the range of things that are acceptable for policy and palatable to the public. Almost by definition, a lot of things that are going to be really important and shape the future are not in the Overton window, because they sound weird and off-putting and very futuristic. But I think stories are the best way to bring them in." — Elizabeth Cox
In today’s episode, Keiran Harris speaks with Elizabeth Cox — founder of the independent production company Should We Studio — about the case that storytelling can improve the world.
Links to learn more, highlights, and full transcript.
They cover:
- How TV shows and movies compare to novels, short stories, and creative nonfiction if you’re trying to do good.
- The existing empirical evidence for the impact of storytelling.
- Their competing takes on the merits of thinking carefully about target audiences.
- Whether stories can really change minds on deeply entrenched issues, or whether writers need to have more modest goals.
- Whether humans will stay relevant as creative writers with the rise of powerful AI models.
- Whether you can do more good with an overtly educational show vs other approaches.
- Elizabeth’s experience with making her new five-part animated show Ada — including why she chose the topics of civilisational collapse, kidney donations, artificial wombs, AI, and gene drives.
- The pros and cons of animation as a medium.
- Career advice for creative writers.
- Keiran’s idea for a longtermist Christmas movie.
- And plenty more.
Material you might want to check out before listening:
Chapters:
- Cold open (00:00:00)
- Luisa's intro (00:01:04)
- The interview begins (00:02:52)
- Is storytelling really a high-impact career option? (00:03:26)
- Empirical evidence of the impact of storytelling (00:06:51)
- How storytelling can inform us (00:16:25)
- How long will humans stay relevant as creative writers? (00:21:54)
- Ada (00:33:05)
- Debating the merits of thinking about target audiences (00:38:03)
- Ada vs other approaches to impact-focused storytelling (00:48:18)
- Why animation (01:01:06)
- One Billion Christmases (01:04:54)
- How storytelling can humanise (01:09:34)
- But can storytelling actually change strongly held opinions? (01:13:26)
- Novels and short stories (01:18:38)
- Creative nonfiction (01:25:06)
- Other promising ways of storytelling (01:30:53)
- How did Ada actually get made? (01:33:23)
- The hardest part of the process for Elizabeth (01:48:28)
- Elizabeth’s hopes and dreams for Ada (01:53:10)
- Designing Ada with an eye toward impact (01:59:16)
- Alternative topics for Ada (02:05:33)
- Deciding on the best way to get Ada in front of people (02:07:12)
- Career advice for creative writers (02:11:31)
- Wikipedia book spoilers (02:17:05)
- Luisa's outro (02:20:42)
Producer: Keiran Harris
Audio engineering: Ben Cordell, Milo McGuire, Simon Monsour, and Dominic Armstrong
Content editing: Luisa Rodriguez, Katy Moore, and Keiran Harris
Transcriptions: Katy Moore
