I don't think it undermines the basic tenets if you look back at what people were fundamentally arguing for the criticism from now would be that they were not thoroughgoingly humanist enough. I'm a patron of humanist UK but I'm somewhat of a critical friend I think sometimes they regret having me as a patron because yeah there are things about it which I think have a tendency to go a bit wrong. The Ingersoll line is you know happiness is the only good and this is something that contemporary humanists often say so we have that humanist bus campaign a few years ago where posters on the side of buses said there's probably no God.

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