The Unifying Principle of the Body of Fort

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John mac werter is an associate professor of english and comparative literature at columbia university. He writes a news letter for the new york times, and he is one of our time's most trenchant commentators and critics of the set of ideas popularly known as woke. We had a really interesting conversation about whether or not it is helpful and accurate to characterize them as a new religion. And finally, about why much of it is harming african americans, and what those who want to improve the condition of black America should do instead.

John McWhorter is an author, a member of the Persuasion Board of Advisors, a Columbia University linguist, and a columnist for The New York Times. His latest book, Woke Racism: How a New Religion Has Betrayed Black America, argues that we must understand wokeness, quite literally, as a religion.

In this week’s conversation, John McWhorter and Yascha Mounk discuss the nature of today’s social progressivism, whether it constitutes a religion, and how we can actually help to reduce racial disparities in the United States.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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