Girard: I think the most obvious answer to both questions is Peter Thiel. But that's not, we're probably giving Thiel too much credit if that's also the end of the answer. And this is the Girardian phenomenon, Proxilons. You see a model that you want to be like, and then you want to gain,.You obtain the object, the model is associated with. The tradition that I was taught in ... brings forth more new and meaningfully new ideas than this sort of other rebellious tradition," he says.

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