Thelma and Louise: A Road Trip to Destabilize the American Political System

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The book is so dense. You made it a real task for people that want to interview at you about it because there are 12,000 stories in the book and lots of deep research. There's a billion angles to come out, but I think what I want to do is connect with you on the thing that I've been obsessed with as well, which is watching everyone around me start to become more and more pessimistic. That's a great thing to be obsessed with.

This is the third episode in a three-part series about how to have difficult conversations with people who see the world differently, how to have better debates about contentious issues, and how to ethically and scientifically persuade one another about things that matter – in short, this is a three-part series about How Minds Change (which is also the title of my new book).

There seems to be a movement afoot, a new wave of nonfiction about how to reduce all this argumentative madness and epistemic chaos. I want to boost everyone’s signal on this issue, so I thought it would be nice to collaborate instead of compete, since that’s part of what we are all proselytizing with these books.

So this episode’s guest is Anand Giridharadas, the author of The Persuaders – a book about activists, politicians, educators, and everyday citizens who are on the ground working to change minds, bridge divisions, and fight for democracy.

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