If we step outside ourselves and really measure how much, like if I, if I actually measure how much I've changed because of my interaction with certain cellular atom. In that sense, cats are running the world because they're probably controlling humans. That's my theory. Another, that's a follow up paper after the fraud kissing. Okay. So we have this framework. What is this paper? What is the way you propose to think about sentience beyond natural species?" "I almost never talk about consciousness per se," he says. 'It's a whole separate kettle of fish'