Arlene Blum has scaled some of the most treacherous peaks in the Himalayas. When she’s not climbing mountains, she’s fighting to get toxic chemicals banned from everyday household goods. Arlene says that her experience leading expeditions has helped her acquire the personal skills and attributes required to push through bold new science policies.

Matthew Syed asks whether transferable resilience from one field to another is the secret to reaching the top not just once, but throughout our lives.

Arlene is not alone in her experience. Riteesh Mishra, a retired pro-footballer turned coach and talent manager, is a big advocate for “dual careers". Likewise, Professor Julia Richardson has led a study looking into how sportspeople can adapt their skills to second careers, drawing on their experiences in one area in order to excel in another.

Living a dual life as a mountaineer and a chemist has equipped Arlene with resilience and determination, but there’s something else that’s led Arlene to the top, and that’s the ability to question the ways things have always been done. Professor Steven Nadler, a philosopher specialising in early modern philosophy, says that Arlene can be considered a modern heretic. Do we need a bit more heretical thinking to get to the top of our own mountains?

Presenter: Matthew Syed Producer: Claire Crofton Series Editor: Katherine Godfrey Researcher: Nadia Mehdi Music, Sound Design and Mix: Nicholas Alexander Theme Music: Seventy Times Seven by Ioana Selaru A Novel production for BBC Radio 4