"I really do believe his thing is, the secret to life is to care, but not that much," he says. "It was always just about the sort of game and, and then this thing was always, if you don't get this, you'll get something else and it will be better." He adds: "This is something i've only realized maybe very, very recently, where i feel like i've done tons of negotiations in my life, but i had to fake not caring"

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