Are You Leaning in on Epistemic Curiousness?

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We're addicted to wanting to cure the error codes in our brains, especially when there's uncertainty. Certainty makes us feel like, you know, it kindo, our brain starts going air, air. And what ends up happening is that we go seeking it in these ways that are unhealthy. So it actually takes work to focus on epistemic curiosity. We have to make this institutionalize in our organizations and in our lives.

Jennifer Moss: The Burnout Epidemic Jennifer Moss is an award-winning journalist, author, and international public speaker. She is a nationally syndicated radio columnist, reporting on topics related to happiness and workplace well-being. She is also a freelance writer whose articles have appeared in HuffPost, Forbes, the Society for Human Resource Management, Fortune, and Harvard Business Review. Jennifer’s prior book, Unlocking Happiness at Work, received the distinguished UK Business Book of the Year Award. She also sits on the Global Happiness Council. She is the author of The Burnout Epidemic: The Rise of Chronic Stress and How We Can Fix It*. In this conversation, Jennifer and I explore a few misconceptions about burnout — and also how curiosity and empathy can help to reduce it. We discuss a few key questions leaders can ask to gain insight on how to help. Plus, we detail how to avoid confirmation bias through generic interactions. Key Points Self-care doesn’t cure burnout. Curiosity increases empathy — and empathy from leaders is a fabulous antidote to burnout. There are two kinds of curiosity, epistemic and perceptual. True empathy comes from a focus on epistemic interactions. Go beyond the generic, “How are you?” and instead get more specific with a request like, “Name a high — and a low.” Doing these with a team can help surface how to help. Assume the best. It’s ok to say, “Thank you for sharing this with me. I don’t have any advice. I just want to listen and learn.” Resources Mentioned The Burnout Epidemic: The Rise of Chronic Stress and How We Can Fix It* by Jennifer Moss Interview Notes Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required). Related Episodes How to Build Psychological Safety, with Amy Edmondson (episode 404) What to Do With Your Feelings, with Lori Gottlieb (episode 438) Leadership Means You Go First, with Keith Ferrazzi (episode 488) Discover More Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic.