Today on the podcast, Dr. Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen have a timely conversation with Chuck DeGroat, professor of Counseling and Christian Spirituality at Western Theological Seminary, licensed therapist, and spiritual director. He is the author of Leaving Egypt: Finding God in the Wilderness Places as well as When Narcissism Comes to Church, which serves as the primary topic of conversation throughout this episode. In this special episode, you’ll learn more about the characteristics of narcissism, how Chuck came to address narcissism in the context of the church (particularly in the realm of church planting), and the reckoning that is taking place in the church today to dismantle structures of narcissism.