Who Decides: Legislatures or Judges?

Jeff Clements,CEO of American Promise joins Chuck Todd for a deep dive into one of the most consequential—and misunderstood—threats to American democracy: money in politics. Clements argues that today’s campaign finance dysfunction isn’t a failure of legislation but a court-created crisis, tracing how Supreme Court rulings turned money into speech, opened massive loopholes, and shifted lawmaking power from Congress to the judiciary. From McCain-Feingold to super PACs, the conversation unpacks why courts have repeatedly blocked reform efforts and why the problem isn’t free speech itself, but the unchecked amplification that allows wealth to drown out everyone else.

The discussion turns to whether a constitutional amendment is the only viable path forward, how such an amendment could reclaim authority from the courts, and what it would take to build support across 38 states. Drawing parallels to the Gilded Age and the founders’ obsession with corruption, Clements explains why Americans broadly understand the system is broken—even if it’s hard to make campaign finance a voting issue. In a moment of democratic crisis, he makes the case that meaningful reform is still possible, and that restoring political equality could become a rare point of unity in a deeply polarized era.

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Timeline:

(Timestamps may vary based on advertisements)

00:00 Jeff Clements joins the Chuck ToddCast

01:15 Constitutional amendment the only way to get money out of politics?

02:30 Campaign finance problems are a “court created crisis”

04:00 The Supreme Court created all the campaign finance loopholes

04:45 If money wasn’t speech, is McCain-Feingold good legislation?

05:30 Money will always “find a way” in politics

08:45 Courts have stood in the way of campaign finance reform

09:15 How to word an amendment to take this power away from judiciary

13:00 Is there a first amendment argument against amplification?

14:00 Money in politics isn’t a free speech issue, it’s an amplification issue

18:30 Maine had a $5000 limit on PACs, was knocked down by courts

19:15 Courts ruled that money can’t corrupt when it’s clear they can

20:45 Court could rule that limits apply to PACs & campaigns, or rule no limits

21:45 The court has created many contradictions in campaign finance

22:45 A court ruling won’t fix the problem, an amendment would

23:15 Most campaign finance law has been written by judiciary

25:00 It’s difficult to make campaign finance a voting issue

27:15 The American people understand that the system is corrupted

31:15 There are many similarities between the Gilded Age & now

32:45 We’ll should see see several amendments in the next decade

34:15 Need 38 states for amendment, what’s the biggest hurdle?

35:30 A states rights argument would be very persuasive to legislatures

37:00 Free speech doesn’t mean you get to drown out everyone else

40:00 Money equaling speech has made money equal power

43:00 The founders were obsessed with corruption, led to the revolution

44:00 Limiting campaign finance is perceived to help the left over the right

47:15 Could a presidential candidate galvanize the debate?

47:45 The president & governors have no constitutional role in the process

50:00 The goal is to leave a well-informed electorate & building support

51:15 Are there any super wealthy donors who support these reforms?

53:15 This is a crisis for our democracy but could create an opportunity

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