Therapy vs TIAMAT

Led by Ethan Hsieh, John Vervaeke and Taylor Barratt, The Lectern is partnering with 5ToMidnight to offer a long form hybrid (online/in-person) practice program called TIAMAT-X. This program brings a full ecology of practices, endorsed by The Vervaeke Foundation to help you develop the capacity to…

perceive what matters

regulate in real time

and act with clarity

…through a cohesive method that weaves together mindful dialogue, embodiment, imaginal practice, and disciplined mindfulness.

Learn more about the program here:

https://www.5tomidnight.org/offerings/tiamat-x

https://lectern.johnvervaeke.com/courses/tiamat-x

In part two of the Lectern Dialogues series, Ethan introduces two ex-participants, now facilitators-in-training, Rens and Ellie, as the discussion continues on how to bring virtuosity to virtue and transform philosophical understanding into a way of life. The focus is on Ethan's TIAMAT process, a three-tiered pedagogical approach integrating performance and cognitive science into living practices. The conversation dives into the importance of overcoming habitual thought patterns, unlocking agency, and the participatory nature of this transformative work. Through shared experiences and reflections, they contrast the program's approach to that of traditional therapy, emphasizing complexification, relational ontology, and distributed trust and empowerment. The episode illustrates the depth and communal aspects of Tier 2 of TIAMAT and its impact on personal growth and relationships.

Ethan Hsieh

Ethan Hsieh is a facilitator, educator, and philosophical practitioner whose work bridges performance, cognition, and transformative pedagogy. As the creator of the TIAMAT process—a three-tiered developmental framework—he integrates insights from performance practice, cognitive science, and dialogical philosophy to help individuals cultivate virtuosity as a way of life. Through immersive training containers and collaborative inquiry, he guides participants in mapping their inner experience, expanding their relational capacities, and enacting what he calls "postures of presence." Ethan's approach emphasizes participatory learning, metacognitive mapping, and the cultivation of agency through shared practice. His work with the collective 5toMidnight seeks to foster deliberately developmental communities grounded in relational ontology, where philosophical understanding becomes lived transformation.

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00:00 Welcome to the Lectern

01:00 Introducing Ethan's collaborators: Rens and Ellie

02:00 The TIAMAT process: Integrating virtuosity and virtue

03:00 Ethan's journey and collaborations

07:30 Rens's and Ellie's backgrounds and contributions

11:00 Meta maps and philosophical frameworks

12:04 "Meta maps are a kind of structure for your metacognition to be able to at least have touch points to map your experience."

15:00 The role of participation and feedback

26:00 Therapy vs. TIAMAT: a comparative discussion

40:00 Exploring ambiguity and complexity

42:30 Therapy and empowering agency

46:00 Deliberately developmental civilization

47:30 Shadow work and its misconceptions

52:00 Tier two dynamics and personal growth

01:06:00 Facilitating and participating in growth

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https://lectern.johnvervaeke.com

https://twitter.com/vervaeke_john

https://www.youtube.com/@johnvervaeke

https://www.patreon.com/johnvervaeke

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Thank you for watching!