The Unseminary Podcast - Is There Anything You Want to Share?

Welcome to the unSeminary podcast – so glad that you have decided to tune in. This week we have with us Aaron Tredway, Lead Pastor of Fellowship City Church in Ohio.

As church leaders, we know that when we empower others, we can accomplish more together than we can alone. But it can be hard to “give your job away”. Listen to today’s podcast as Aaron shares how the team mentality at Fellowship City Church has allowed them to turn around from a place of decline to growth.

• Team philosophy on leadership. // There’s always a temptation to fill the gap yourself rather than bring others in to raise them up and release them. Church leaders wear a lot of different hats and we have limited capacity so we have to get creative about problem solving. Team leadership can be a solution to our limitations, but it requires us to lay down our egos and not build the ministry around our own personalities.
• Team preaching. // One example of team leadership at Fellowship City Church is the preaching team. Every Thursday this team of more than ten people meets to do a full runthrough of the message, whether Aaron or another person on the team is preaching. The team vets the message together and, as a result, on Sundays it’s really the voice of the team bringing the message even though one person is communicating it.
• Give your job away. // At Fellowship City Church, the staff is taught to embrace a team mentality where they are working themselves out of their jobs. Everyone needs to hold their position and title loosely, and intentionally think about how they can operate from a place that serves the team best. To combat fears about being replaced, Aaron reminds us that because there is always enough work to go around and enough people that need to be reached, there will always be an important place for people to serve out of their callings.
• Help them find their place. // To help people at the church get plugged in, a vocational paid staff at Fellowship City Church created a leadership system that raises people up and releases them into ministry. He worked to get the system off the ground, but then handed it off to unpaid staff who are now facilitating it. Rather than shy away from empowering volunteers in these roles, create intentional touch points to help them continue to grow in their leadership while staying aligned with the church’s mission and vision.
• Aim for significance, not success. // As people start to reach their life goals, they have a sense of accomplishment and fulfillment, but it doesn’t last. Aaron has written the book, Don’t Miss Your Life: The Secret to Significance, which reveals that many of us are dissatisfied with our lives because we are aimed at the target of success rather than the target of significance. Gift this practical guide and read it together with your team to discover how we can find a life of meaning in God’s kingdom.

You can learn more about what’s happening at Fellowship City Church by visiting fellowshipcity.org, or find out more about Aaron and his book at aarontredway.com.

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Episode Transcript

Rich Birch — Well, hey, everybody. Welcome to the unSeminary podcast. So glad that you have decided to tune in. You know every week we try to bring you a leader who’s going to both inspire and equip you and today’s no exception. Super excited to have Aaron Tredway with us. He is a Lead Pastor at a church called Fellowship City Church. They have 2 locations located in Ohio around the cultural epicenter of the world, Cleveland. Aaron is the the Lead Pastor – he’s been there since 2017. At that point the church had existed for 40 years and was in decline. We’re going to pick up the story from there. But, Aaron, welcome to the show today.

Aaron Tredway — Hey, Rich, So great to be with you man.

Rich Birch — Yeah, why don’t you fill out the story. Tell us a little bit about your background and kind of how did that connect with Fellowship City, and kind of bring us up to speed on that.

Aaron Tredway — Yeah, well first, I love the idea of the cultural epicenter which is Cleveland, Ohio.

Rich Birch — It is isn’t – that’s true, isn’t it? Isn’t that true?

Aaron Tredway — It’s how everyone introduces me. I just I pastor at church in Cleveland, Ohio. No that’s that’s awesome. I’m not a native Clevelander, but I gotta tell you I’ve grown to love this city. I love the people of this city. I actually originally from California, and had the opportunity to travel a lot in my life. You know, kind of I guess I sometimes call it my former life. I was a professional athlete I was professional soccer player for 13 years. And really ah spent about 25 years in professional soccer altogether. But the Lord always had ah a calling towards vocational ministry on my life. I went to seminary kind of while I was a player – not common thing to do. And not because I thought it was called to be a pastor per se, but I was kind of always like a pastor to professional athletes along the journey.

Rich Birch — Okay, yeah, yeah.

Aaron Tredway —And found myself at ah at a local church. I’ve always loved the local church whether I was living in Harare, Zimbabwe, Singapore, Sao Paulo, Brazil, or now Cleveland, Ohio – I’ve always loved the local church, had a passion to see people equipped and released to live out the kingdom, and and live for the glory of God. And so so, yeah, I found myself in Cleveland, Ohio 2017 with my South African wife. We had moved here and this church was in decline. It was, you know, it was ah a great church at one point. And this community, in my opinion, needs a great church, and it wasn’t quite that at that time.

Rich Birch — And what when you say it was in decline, kind of paint the picture. What does that look like? How did you, you know… So there’s two fascinating pieces of that. One is tell us about that. What did that look like? And then how did you land there? How did those two pieces kind of come together?

Aaron Tredway — Yeah. I guess the shortest way to describe it is I was a missionary of this church with an organization called Ambassadors Football. After my career in in soccer, I joined an organization, a ministry – a Gospel Ministry, presenting the gospel, doing discipleship through soccer all around the world.

Rich Birch — Very cool.

Aaron Tredway — It’s part of how I met my wife in South Africa. And so really ambassadors exist to serve the local church around the world, to help the church harness the power, the vehicle, of soccer to do discipleship and evangelism in their own communities.

Aaron Tredway — And so when we moved to Cleveland, Ohio, it was kind of a natural place to land because we were supported by this church, and so we kind of landed here, and I ended up on the board of this church. And so I served as an elder for a few years, and and we we went through a 10 year downturn in terms of leadership, where you know there was was a little bit of moral failure on on the part of one pastor. There was just some, you know, some deficiencies – a gap in leadership over 10 years. And really, what was a 40 year legacy of real impact in this community had quickly diminished to, you know, we were on a lifeline, so to speak.

Rich Birch — Interesting. Well I’d love to hear the story of kind of what what has God used in the life of your church over these years between 2017 to now, kind of what would have been a few of those things that have bubbled up as like, hey it seems like God’s using this to help us reach our community to kind of restore the church to where it had been in the past.

Aaron Tredway — Yeah, I think there were were probably a lot of questions to answer when I first came in to leading the church. And you know I’ve led a few different organizations. Um from a professional soccer organization franchise here in the United States, to a fairly large nonprofit globally with offices in forty different countries. And you know, so so from a leadership perspective I feel like, you know, not that I’ve figured everything out, but I really have a philosophy on leadership that’s really built around team. It’s really a team-centric model of leadership where I really want to just empower those around me and believe that together we can do more. It’s kind of cliché I realize, but I really believe and we pull our resources and leverage that which God is instilled within us, we can do more than I could personally do on my own as a leader.

Rich Birch — Mm-hmm. Now let me poke on that a little bit. I think a lot of people say they’re into team leadership. They are like, yes, they know that because you’re supposed to say that. But then it seems like a lot of local churches are like these pyramids that all bubble up to like a single person at the top. When you say “team”? What do you mean by that? What do you mean by team leadership?

Aaron Tredway — Yeah, I can’t speak for for other churches; I’m not… and you know, I’m I’m an unconventional lead pastor.

Rich Birch — Sure, sure. Yes, great.

Aaron Tredway — I backed my way into this role, but I gotta say as well I really feel I am here for such a time as this, that God equipped me to be in this position. Um, and you know it it might not be that we’re reaching at this point the outer most parts of the universe yet. But but God has me here. And so when I talk about team, I do recognize that, you know, a lot of people say they want to do team and and value team. But for me what it means is is trying my best to not build the ministry around my own personality.

Rich Birch — So good.

Aaron Tredway — And I think if I would ah to to boil down my philosophy, it’s, you know, from everything from from preaching on a Sunday um, you know, I had ah an itinerant preaching ministry for 20 years. So even though I’m a fairly new pastor I’ve preached in 150 countries.

Rich Birch — Right, right.

Aaron Tredway — So, you know, I’m not the greatest preacher, but I can preach a bit.

Rich Birch — Yes.

Aaron Tredway — And and yet I think the the real tension is not to fill that gap myself. Really try to bring in other people and to raise up, and also release, them, to do that that work as well.

Rich Birch — Yeah, I love that. So that’s a great example of, you know, how do we kind of acquiesce, how do we give to other people—maybe talk about that a little bit particularly on the teaching piece—what has that looked like? How has teamed work itself out in that, because that does seem to be ah, it’s like um, ah, a bottleneck, a capping off point that we can find ourselves in. What what does that look like, how does that work itself out in your church?

Aaron Tredway — Yeah, I’m probably like most people; I have I wear different hats. I’m a husband, I’m a father, and I lead ah a nonprofit organization in addition to leading in the local church. So there’s lots of different balls you’re trying to keep in the air all at the same time. And the preaching team is just one example of how I manage that. You know, I think one of the great challenges that I’ve seen in the local church is capacity. You know, unlike big fortune 500s who might have you know maybe deeper pockets or or greater resources, whether it’s kind of paid staff, or you know just the finance to go get the right people in the right position, I think the local church often has to think creatively. And I think team leadership is a potential solution to that. It does take the laying down of ego in some ways – something I’m always trying to work on. But but the example would be with our preaching team. So I’ve got about at this point 12 guys…

Rich Birch — Wow.

Aaron Tredway — …on a team that meets every Thursday. And we do a full runthrough of the Sunday message, whether it’s me preaching on Sunday or somebody else on the team…

Rich Birch — Wow.

Aaron Tredway — …the team fully vets the message. The the preacher preaches it, and they have the ability to speak in. So it’s really the voice of the team bringing that message through the communicator on any given Sunday.

Rich Birch — I love that. So the thing you’ve hit on that we’ve seen in so many churches is teaching, particularly at and very large churches, is a team sport. That it’s although there may be one person who’s ultimately up communicating, there’s often a group of people behind that. I love that you’ve systematized that even with kind of every week we’re going to pull that group together. I love that one of the other interesting nuances around team, I think in the local church, is oftentimes churches that are struggling with team, they have a very kind of strong line between who’s on staff and who isn’t on staff. And they get really wrapped up in like titles and, you know, that kind of stuff that I think can ultimately undo some of the teamwork stuff that we’re we’re trying to build. Am I wrong on that? What’s what’s your take on that kind of thing when it comes to ah, you know, how do you think about staff, paid and unpaid, all those kinds of things – what does that what does that look like for your church?

Aaron Tredway — Yeah, for for us it’s kind of like everybody’s on staff.

Rich Birch — Yes.

Aaron Tredway — Some some people get paid and and other people don’t.

Rich Birch — Right.

Aaron Tredway — In fact, other people might pay…

Rich Birch — Yes, yes.

Aaron Tredway — …to be on staff but we kind of have a mentality that we are one team kind of working together, pooling our resources to the best of our ability. And I think especially with the the volunteer staff, you know, everybody else that kind of sits in the seats on a Sunday, it is a paradigm shift.

Rich Birch — Right.

Aaron Tredway — You know, this for us at Fellowship City isn’t a spectator sport.

Rich Birch — Right.

Aaron Tredway —You know this is this is a battleship situation. We’re not on the, you know, the the cruise liner where we’re sipping drinks and everybody… it’s all hands on deck. And it it is easy to say but you’ve got to really be intentional about instilling that within your people, from my perspective, or kind of it’s human nature. You know, if I can kind of just eat along for the ride, sign me up.

Rich Birch — Yes, yes.

Aaron Tredway — You know, I’ll just cruise along.

Rich Birch — Interesting. So talk to me about how you’re how you’re getting people onto your teams. What’s that actually look like? So I Iove this. Oftentimes you know I’ve said in other contexts that actually volunteer growth is actually a precursor—we’ve seen this time and again in church growth—it’s actually a precursor of church growth. So if you’re building your volunteer teams, getting more people onto your volunteer teams, that’s actually an indication that overall growth is coming because there’s this whole thing that happens as people change their own life, and they become a part of their team, they talk to their friends about it and and they’re like well I now do this thing at my church, they end up naturally inviting people. It becomes a kind of accelerant for church growth. But talk me through what that looks like – how are you encouraging people like you say, you know, echo what you’re saying, get out of the stands and onto the field, stop being an just an observer, become an active participant. What what does that look like for you?

Aaron Tredway — At every level of of our ministry within our church, we’re trying to promote this idea of team. So whether it’s kind of the preaching team to you know the kids ministry team. Every aspect has a team mentality.

Aaron Tredway — And I know that there’s, you know, that this whole idea of the leadership pipeline is quite a popular concept, which I like as a leader, but I’m I’m really probably more invested in the idea of a greenhouse, where we’re constantly growing people up. And and really the the perspective and mentality of our paid staff is to be working themselves out of a job. And that’s that’s a mentality, you know. And unless you’re strategically and specifically thinking in that direction, but we’re trying to create a culture where we’re all thinking: how can I replace myself as fast as we can. How can I hold my title and my position loosely because I just want to be in the place that I can serve the team best?

Rich Birch — Okay, I love that. Let’s lean in on that a little bit. I think ah, we’ve all run into team members on our staff who have not that hasn’t really fully got into their head, and they feel like, gosh, if I replace myself, then what’s going to happen? Like if I find other people to do what I’m doing, doesn’t that mean I’m just going to be somehow made redundant, which we know that’s not the case, but work work us through that, kind of talk us through what does that look like for your team.

Aaron Tredway — Yeah, I’ll try to illustrate that – maybe from outside of church world.

Rich Birch — Sure.

Aaron Tredway — You know I served a long time in soccer and, you know, soccer, you know, whether Americans want to believe it or not is the most popular game in the world.

Rich Birch — Yes, yes, true.

Aaron Tredway — And so, you know, the the reality is there are a lot of people doing soccer ministry out there. And and whenever a new soccer ministry has arisen over the the history of Ambassadors Football, we never viewed it as competition. Because we all felt like there’s enough people and enough ministry…

Rich Birch — Right.

Aaron Tredway — …around the world through soccer to go around. And that’s kind of how I feel like in the local church. No matter how big the church happens to be, there’s enough people and enough work to go around. So whether I’m the lead pastor today, or I’m a campus pastor tomorrow, or I’m an elder you know, or I’m a kids ministry director, or… to me there’s just there’s so much to do…

Rich Birch — Right.

Aaron Tredway — …that if I’m thinking through the lens of team, there’s always going to be ah, an important place, not just a place, an important place for me to serve out my calling.

Rich Birch — Yeah, I love that. I and, you know, I think one of the critical pieces of building great teams sticking—and I am like the opposite of the sports guy, so this is I’m way out of my field here at this point—but you know, knowing your kind of place on the team is important, getting a sense of kind of what is my what’s my unique piece that I bring to the table. Um, how are you doing that at you know Fellowship City? What does that look like to kind of help people find their place, to find their spot in how they can serve, how they could be an active part an active participant in what’s going on?

Aaron Tredway — Yeah, we’ve got ah a few different kind of of formalized mechanisms, I suppose. We we in-house started like a leadership university, just in our church. It’s not something formalized. We actually launched through a seminary, Ashland University.

Rich Birch — Mmm-hmm.

Aaron Tredway — And and we found like they they did a great job that first year – it was a nine month thing, but we felt like it wasn’t contextualized enough. And you know so one guy he, on staff, he kind of owned that. And the reason I bring that specifically that example up is because he owned it. He got it off the ground as a vocational paid staff. But now that thing is fully run by unpaid staff, where we are raising up and releasing leaders into ministry. But but it’s actually not being facilitated in any way by somebody being paid by the church.

Rich Birch — Oh I love that. That’s so cool. And so how do you then kind of that’s a good example of any of ah you know and an area where you know you’ve been able to hand that over. How do you kind of how does your team interface with that? How do you ensure that that continues to push ah, in the right direction, that it continues to meet the needs that you’re hoping it will meet in the church?

Aaron Tredway — Yeah, it’s a good question and I I interpret it as a cultural piece. You know, you want to make sure that the culture of what you’re doing remains consistent across the board, whether you’re you know a single site church, or you’re multisite.

Aaron Tredway — You know, especially as you kind of broaden your your reach a bit. But that that happens you know, even within ah a single location, if you’re running programs especially if they’re being led by unpaid staff then you know how do you maintain that. For us it’s its intentionality.

Aaron Tredway — You know, it’s It’s not saying, Okay, well we raise them up and now they’re fully released. Fly!

Rich Birch — Yes, yes, yeah. Go do it! Yeah, yeah.

Aaron Tredway — You know, is to continue to have very intentional touch points along the way continue to walk the journey of leadership out. It just means that I don’t have to handhold quite as much.

Rich Birch — Right.

Aaron Tredway — It means that I, as a leader, am released to begin to invest my time elsewhere, while I maintain and monitor, you know, other things going on.

Rich Birch — Well and that’s as you know as old or as foundational as Ephesians 4, right? That’s our job is to equip the people, to release them, to get them ready for ah, you know, the ministry. I love that. Where are the bounds like have you run into areas where maybe that handoff hasn’t gone as well? Like I, you know, I can imagine areas where, you know, sometimes people just want a paid staff member. It’s like maybe it’s like hospital visits, or maybe it’s funerals, or you know are there things like that where where people have kind of pushed back a little bit on this handing off or or there been kind of, you know, interesting engagements on that level?

Aaron Tredway — It’s such a good question and I’m sure you know your listeners especially pastors have dealt with with this question. For me coming in, for our church which was a fairly traditional – we’re a nondenominational church, but fairly traditional sitting in a fairly traditional community here in Cleveland, Ohio. And so the idea of multiple voices on a Sunday morning…

Rich Birch — Right.

Aaron Tredway — …from the pulpit, not normal.

Rich Birch — Right, right, right.

Aaron Tredway — Not not readily embraced. The idea of the lead pastor, or more appropriately, the senior pastor…

Rich Birch — Oh sure, sure.

Aaron Tredway — …not being the one who would go to the hospital, or you know make the call, or etc etc. Not normal here.

Aaron Tredway — So was it that like we snapped our finger in 2017 and after 40 years we shifted into this, you know, everybody embraced… No!

Rich Birch — Right.

Aaron Tredway — It took time. You know it’s interesting too because you know not having been a career pastor, um I talked to a lot of pastors now. And and we talk about, you know, like different emails you might get, or comments that you might get on any given week. And the interesting thing to me is I got a to me an unprecedented amount of feedback in my early days leading Fellowship City.

Rich Birch — Sure.

Aaron Tredway — It felt like everybody wanted to have a say in what we were doing…

Rich Birch — Everybody’s got an opinion.

Aaron Tredway — …everybody had an opinion.

Rich Birch — Yes.

Aaron Tredway — And as a professional athlete I was not unfamiliar with that reality.

Rich Birch — Sure.

Aaron Tredway — You got the armchair analyst…

Rich Birch — Yes, yes, yes.

Aaron Tredway — …in sport, right? It kind of feels like the same thing exists in church world.

Rich Birch — Oh wow. Oh wow.

Aaron Tredway — You got people who are not professionals…

Rich Birch — Yes, yes.

Aaron Tredway — …sitting out in the seat kind of commenting like they are the coach.

Rich Birch — Yes, yes.

Aaron Tredway — And fair enough; that that makes sense to me. But the interesting thing that happened is the longer we just stayed consistent with what we were doing, and how we were doing it, and unapologetically, for the most part, the more I felt like people got on the bus.

Rich Birch — Right.

Aaron Tredway — And got on board. And I’m not saying that I never get an email with a negative critique or kind of, you know, input. But it’s very rare for me now.

Rich Birch — Interesting.

Aaron Tredway — Very rare.

Rich Birch — Right.

Aaron Tredway — In covid I got two emails the whole of the last two and a half years.

Rich Birch — Wow! That’s incredible. Yeah, that’s amazing.

Aaron Tredway — And that’s stating a lot to anybody who’s been leading in a local church for the last two and a half years.

Rich Birch — Absolutely, absolutely. There’s been lots to comment on, for sure. That’s that’s incredible. Yeah, I love that idea of staying consistent, staying focused. Um, you know, and people will follow leaders long term. It’s normal at the beginning when you start in a location, you know, for there to be questions for sure. But I love that idea of consistency, pushing in the right direction.

Rich Birch — I’d love to pivot in a different direction. You have a book that just came out that I want to talk a little bit more about, if if you don’t mind. It’s called, Don’t Miss Your Life: The Secret to Significance. Tell me about this book. This is a lot of time, effort, and energy to pull this kind of thing together. What was it that you that led you to say, now is the time; I want to pull this book together.

Aaron Tredway — Yeah, thanks for asking. Ah I’m super-excited, like you just said it. It just launched just came out October 4th and and we’re real excited about this particular book. I’ve been, you know, fortunate enough to write a few books in the past. But really this book specifically is kind of like my life and and my my whole philosophy put into a few hundred pages.

Rich Birch — Love it.

Aaron Tredway — And really it’s a book on on living out our God-given purpose. You know, I can’t speak for everybody but for me, growing up I wanted to be an athlete. And you already said that’s not what you wanted.

Rich Birch — Yes. Sure.

Aaron Tredway — So this is not a book about becoming a professional athlete. But for me, growing up, you know, I had this vision of what my life maybe could or should be. This idea in my mind. And and when I got there, it was an amazing thing. I felt you know the sense of accomplishment and fulfillment. Um, but the interesting thing, and I think most people can probably relate with this, is you know when you start to attain some of the things of the world, and some of the the things that you maybe desire most, they do satiate and satisfy, but not long term.

Rich Birch — Right. That’s true.

Aaron Tredway — And and for me I had an experience standing on ah a dirt soccer field in Harare, Zimbabwe in 1998 where I went on a mission trip and I’d never been on a mission trip. Um I was a 21 year old kid at the time, and I’d only come to know Christ a few years before. And I’m on this mission trip and we’d played in a stadium of 60,000 people the day before…

Rich Birch — Wow.

Aaron Tredway — …but now I’m standing in the middle of nowhere Africa. And and I don’t know if it was the audible voice of God, but I felt God impressed upon me, do you think I left you on the soccer field all of these years just for you? Or do you think that there’s a bigger purpose, you know?

Rich Birch — Right.

Aaron Tredway — Is there some reason that you are here that is more important than just the significance of self?

Rich Birch — Love it.

Aaron Tredway — And for me what I realized in short is that I had aimed the at the target of the the target of my life was the wrong target. So for me, it’s really become about, how do I aim the target of my life at significance instead of aiming at success…

Rich Birch — Yes.

Aaron Tredway — …which is what I always thought we were supposed to aim at.

Rich Birch — Yeah, I love that. You know, I’m struck by this because I think this could be a great book as like ah ah, either a team discussion, like with my the people who you know I work with, or even as a gift, you know, maybe to people in our churches, significant donors, that kind of thing. Because I think this whole idea of, you know, we come to the place in our life where we have some level of success but the question is is that of any significance, is that actually making any difference. I really do, I love that idea. Now as you wrote this book, what part of it resonated the most with you, or has resonated as you’ve had it released out there with other people, that it’s like okay this this this kind of core piece of it seems to be the part that’s getting the most traction?

Aaron Tredway — Yeah, there’s this idea that I didn’t come up with – those are all but always the best…

Rich Birch — Yes, I love it.

Aaron Tredway — …called the hedonic treadmill – have you heard of it?

Rich Birch — No, tell me about it.

Aaron Tredway — It’s this idea that, you know, it’s kind of if you imagine that you’re running on a treadmill, and the the more you run and the more you attain the thing that you want the more you want, that thing.

Rich Birch — Yes, yes.

Aaron Tredway — You know, it’s like it’s like sugar. If I if I feel like I crave sugar and I eat some sugar. I’m satiated for a moment, but the second I eat the sugar, I want more sugar.

Rich Birch — Okay, yeah, yeah.

Aaron Tredway — So it’s like this treadmill that you can never really get off because the more of it that you get, the more of it that you want. And the more of it want, the more of it you get, et cetera, et cetera, and it just keeps going.

Rich Birch — Yeah.

Aaron Tredway — And and for me I think that’s something that’s resonated with me. As I started to experience just a little bit of of success, I craved it.

Rich Birch — Yes.

Aaron Tredway — I wanted more. And I started to experience more. And it’s almost like I could never get enough. And and I think that idea resonates with people.

Rich Birch — So true.

Aaron Tredway — Um that that, you know, when you experience success really that the success isn’t going to satisfy the deepest longings of your soul.

Rich Birch — Right, right.

Aaron Tredway — Um, and so the question becomes, what will?

Rich Birch — Love it. Well and yeah, you can see where that the hedonic treadmill can be really the part of a ah, really vicious, negative, downward spiral in life. Um, or. You know there could be a part of that that could actually drive to something great, right? That’s like hey you know there’s if if we can get our our desires aligned with things that ultimately pushes towards the Lord that could be a you know that could be fantastic. .

Aaron Tredway — Yeah, definitely.

Rich Birch — Um, now when so where do where do we want to send people online if they want to pick up a copy of this? So like I said, friends, I was struck by this because I do think this would be actually best in a team, ironically, ah that this would be best for either your team, like here we are in the fall. Maybe you’re thinking about either, you know, at last quarter kind of training stuff, I think could be great. I think it could be great if you’re looking for um, you know, conversation starters with maybe a group of leaders around you, but ah, where do we want to send them online if we want them to pick up a copy? Where do we want to send them for that?

Aaron Tredway — Yep, it’s it’s kind of everywhere books are sold type of an idea. You know, Barnes and Noble, Amazon, aarontreadway.com …

Rich Birch — Love it.

Aaron Tredway — Everywhere books are sold, that’s that’s where it will be.

Rich Birch — Love it. Well I appreciate you being on the show today, Aaron. Is there anything else you want to share with us just before we wrap up today’s episode?

Aaron Tredway — Yeah, um, you know again, it’s it’s probably a widely known saying, but you know, I’m married to an African so I feel obliged to to share this.

Rich Birch — Yes.

You know, this idea that if you want to go fast then go alone. But if you want to go far, go together.

Rich Birch — Love it.

Aaron Tredway — And for me in my my leadership, whether it’s here in the local church, or or a para-church, or on a soccer field, I’m all in with this idea of going together.

Rich Birch — Love it. So good. Well, where do we want to send people online if they want to track with you, or with the church? You talked about aarontredway.com – where do we want to send them for more information about the church if if they want that? I want to make sure people are tracking with your story; I think it’s pretty amazing what God’s doing through it.

Aaron Tredway — Thanks, Rich. Yep, our church is Fellowship City Church. It’s fellowshipcity.org and again I can be contacted personally: aarontredway.com

Rich Birch — Thanks so much – appreciate you being here today. Thank you so much.

Aaron Tredway — Thanks, Rich.