We’re more than twenty years into the current reality boom — and things are getting complicated. What are the unspoken and spoken ethics of signing up to become a reality star? What resources (about harassment and protection, about brand deals) should be made available to anyone who signs a reality contract? Are reality stars scabs during strikes — and should they unionize? WHAT MAKES THESE MELODRAMAS SO COMPELLING? WTF IS SCANDOVAL??? Hollywood correspondent Natalie Jarvey joins me to talk through it all.

(And just to be clear, even if you’re not a huge reality television person, this episode has something for you — I watch very little but I’m very invested in reality melodrama reality labor as labor)