Sanctions Doesn't Work, John. It's a Personal Triumph

I think the evidence, because that's what we've seen in other countries, is that Sanctions doesn't work. And for me, if you want to incentivize and get people working, you need to provide a package of support. I'm interested in the £4,000 per person they're talking about to help people into work. We now currently have people in universal credit, 90% of which can't afford the essentials. That means they're always in crisis. So your ability to be able to engage in the labor market in a sensible way to get jobs that have progression opportunities on long-term prospects, rather than recycle,. It's true. They have a huge political effect