The division of strict man and strict women is very, as I say, it's one of the earliest divisions we learned before anything else. The exclusion of us from humanity is what's actually new and tracks with a very specific time in history. It also has to do quite frankly with the proliferation of Christianity whereby indigenous cultures and religions had representations of people who were trans or having cultural space for those things. We like to think of these things as permanent and then somehow that we're new but we're not actually new.

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