This conversatio is with Ricard Solé, a leading thinker in complex systems and synthetic biology. Ricard heads the Complex Systems Lab at Pompeu Fabra University in Barcelona, where he explores how simple rules give rise to life’s astonishing complexity.
We open with a thought-provoking question: Can a biologist fix a radio? — an idea from Yuri Lazebnik that asks if breaking things down into parts really explains how living systems work. Ricard explains why life resists simple mechanical analogies and why cells, organisms, and ecosystems can’t just be “wired up” like machines.
Together we explore what we mean by “complexity,” how nature builds it through evolution, self-organization, and cooperation, and why emergence makes the whole more than the sum of its parts. We touch on termite nests, slime molds, brains, and immune systems as windows into collective intelligence and hidden patterns in nature.
Guest info:
Website: https://www.upf.edu/web/biomed/pdi/-/asset_publisher/vDntl1i7QlGn/content/sol%C3%A9-vicente-ricard/maximized
X: https://x.com/ricard_sole
Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/ricardsole.bsky.social
Episode links:
Website: https://reasonwithscience.com/how-nature-builds-complexity-ricard-sole
Youtube: https://youtu.be/KRcqScqqunA
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/3n64g2SSyXSlzTmOXtE597?si=dNxmfjtFQMGsfY0qaQGaGw
Apple podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-nature-builds-complexity-ricard-sol%C3%A9-reason-with/id1641776894?i=1000719142144
YouTube music: https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=KRcqScqqunA&si=MxOfuk6cvTRDJqtl
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Apple podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/reason-with-science/id1641776894
YouTube music: https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLila1Jm-QEwKu4xXtNpYFAsSDmPR9mlZB&si=5ehXeZhZ-z181G5b
Timestamps:
00:00:00 - Introduction
00:02:01 - Can a Biologist Fix a Radio? (Yuri Lazebnik's Analogy)
00:03:36 - The Limits of Engineering Approaches in Biology
00:04:50 - Hardware vs. Software in Cellular Systems
00:09:01 - What Is Complexity? Emergence Explained
00:10:18 - Collective Intelligence: From Termites to Slime Molds
00:14:57 - Evolution as a Driver of Complexity
00:15:54 - Major Evolutionary Transitions Defined
00:17:27 - The Limits of Reductionism in Biology
00:19:34 - What Complexity Theory Could Offer
00:21:07 - Scaling Laws in Biology and Metabolism
00:22:26 - Synthetic Biology and the Origin of Life
00:26:44 - Information, Coding, and Pre-cellular Chemistry
00:30:03 - Cells, Agency, and the Birth of Individuality
00:33:37 - Liquid Brains: Immune Systems, Ant Colonies, and Intelligence
00:37:58 - Synthetic Worlds: Rebuilding Evolution in the Lab
00:41:06 - Language Emergence and Cognitive Space
00:45:00 - Multicellularity and the Last Common Ancestor
00:49:00 - Turing Patterns and Symmetry Breaking in Development
00:53:36 - The Challenge of Modeling Organs in Complexity Theory
00:55:03 - Plant Intelligence, Redundancy, and Morphological Plasticity
00:57:14 - Slime Molds and Network-Based Computation
01:00:00 - Fungi and Underground Intelligence
01:01:04 - Liquid Brains: A Broader Framework
01:03:00 - The Immune System as a Cognitive Network
01:06:04 - Evolutionary Convergence and Constraints in Biology
01:09:04 - Searching for Life Beyond Earth
01:12:00 - Can Complexity Theory Predict Life’s Origins?
01:17:04 - Synthetic Biology as a Tool for Discovery
01:18:47 - The Origin of Neurons and Brains
01:24:43 - Regeneration, Memory, and the Mystery of Planarians
01:31:05 - Cancer, Evolution, and System Breakdown
01:36:04 - Climate Tipping Points and Complex Systems
01:39:00 - The Importance of Scientific Thinking
01:47:52 - Final Thoughts and Reflections
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