The

story we're about to discuss is the French rape case. And if you've heard about it, you'll know how confronting some of the details are. So this is just a warning. If you've not heard about it, or if you have little ears around, then perhaps skip and you can come back later. There's a tweet going viral this week by Dr. Charlotte Proudman that reads, not all men but Gisele Pelleco's husband who reportedly drugged and raped her for over 10 years. Not all men but 90 plus male strangers mostly living within one kilometer of her home. Not all men, but men with STDs and HIV who didn't use condoms. Not all men, but her polite neighbour." The tweet refers to what is considered one of the worst abuse trials in France's history and the collective despair felt by women all over the world. Gisele Pelleco married a man named Dominique Pelleco and together they had three kids then seven grandchildren. They lived in a province in southeastern France. In 2020, local French police invited Gisele to speak to them after her husband of 50 years was arrested for filming up women's skirts in their local town. While in this interview, investigators presented her with an image of herself, unconscious in her bedroom. She was being raped by a man who was not her husband. This image was just the beginning. There were dozens of videos involving dozens and dozens of men found on Dominique's computer under a file named abuse. It was only then that Giselle realised she had been subjected to a decade of sexual abuse, orchestrated and filmed by her husband who drugged her with a cocktail of medication before inviting men into their home. started last week and Giselle has waved her right to anonymity. On the stand she gave evidence for 19 minutes explaining how she thought she had Alzheimer's after years of memory lapses and unexplained health problems. Dominique has admitted to the charges against him. If this were a simpler story we would dismiss him as a monster, a psychopath. But what makes this crime more sinister is the willingness of these seemingly ordinary men, a polite neighbour, a local counsellor, a nurse, a former police officer, a firefighter, to perpetrate a violent crime when invited to do so. So far, 14 of the defendants have confessed to aggravated rape. And not one of these men, even those who walked away and did not perpetrate abuse, made a phone call to police. This is a story about bystanders and a network of men, most sourced from the internet, who committed these depraved acts with such apparent ease. Holly, what do you think this story tells us? I've been turning away from it

for days, because it is just so upsetting. I think one of the reasons why women are sharing this story so much, obviously it's extreme and it's shocking and it's not something you read all the time. So there's a factor of it of just like, oh gosh, I hadn't heard about this. But women are sharing this because it feels to me at least, I know there are a lot of men who are really smart at the idea that one depraved man's actions, or anything other than one depraved man's actions. And they're like, it's sort of victim blaming to cast all men with any kind of smear about men being violent, because men are violent against men as well. And that's true, right? But this story, as you've said, is so much about bystanders. And about bystanders, it's about a whole system. Because the place where her husband, Dominic Pelico, went to source these guys who wanted to come and have sex with his unconscious wife, come and rape his unconscious wife, was a chat room on a social media platform called Coco that's been closed down since then. But there was a specific chat within that that was called something that translates as without their knowledge. So we can imagine that this wasn't the only particular incident of this that was circulating on that chat room. And we can also imagine that there are other platforms and other chat rooms that exist where this kind of content is being shared. And it makes women feel so unsafe, because we're already being told every day that we're imagining it that all men are violent, and we're imagining it that all men would condone this kind of behavior. And of course they wouldn't. But the fact that this is her loving husband, she is on record as saying that they were married for 50 years and she thought they had a perfect marriage, not just the people around them but she did. And her loving husband was doing this to her for more than a decade and now it seems that he may well have also been taking pictures of his daughter, his daughter-in We have no idea how wide these tentacles stretch. And I think the reason that women are passing this story around, there's also been some other really horrendous high profile stories this week. There was a woman that we all watched run a marathon in Paris just a few weeks ago who was murdered by her partner just a few days ago. She's a marathon runner called Rebecca Cheptege, and she was murdered by her partner in the most horrific circumstances. Couple those with the relentless barrage. We get week after week about a violent incident, and women are just feeling... We're feeling crazy. Like it's not the right word. I know it's not the right word, but this story is the kind of story that makes you feel crazy because you're like, it's not just one guy, as you've said. It was a whole community of guys. I've read the mayor of this town, who obviously doesn't want the stench of this to stick to his town, saying, we had no idea, we didn't really know him, they'd moved here quite recently. And it's not like anybody died, he said.

You know,

there's a possible pass there in a translation slip. But he said, this is not like anybody died or a child was murdered, this is a woman's rape. And it's that kind of context in a world where it feels like our safety is not something we can guarantee, our rights are not something we can guarantee. That's why this story is resonating so hard, as well as the extraordinary bravery of this woman.

That's why her testimony is so important. I don't think anyone can quite grasp the strength of someone to sit there for 90 minutes and talk about what happened to her. And of course, the way that a courtroom will unfold, we've seen this in Australia, is that the only way to defend any of these people is to suggest that there was some kind of open marriage where she was a willing participant and that's been brought up. So she has to sit in a courtroom where they're saying that, where the other side is referring to it as consensual sex. But she has said some version of, I will never be okay. Like this is absolutely broken me. And I think- And all her children? No. And she described when she told her daughter and the sound that her daughter made, she just screamed. She was so horrified. It's the story of a wolf in sheep's clothing because this isn't, you know, we know this and we know about the monster myth, but this is a grandfather. This is just an ordinary man who was able to get on the internet and I think that this is the other part of the story, is that it reveals how sinister, unchecked online forums are. That this was allowed to, France has a cultural, they're very sexually liberal, and they don't like to shut down. It's not just a French thing. No.

One of the reasons why the CEO of Telegram has been arrested in France very recently is because there are a lot of questions about all kinds of platforms that are being very strictly defended under free speech legislation. And not just legislation, but it's kind of the owners of them are saying, but free speech, but free speech, we don't have to show you what's on there that people know are being used for terrorism activity, drug, and a few of the sexual assaults.

These are also just underground websites. We know that child sexual abuse material is being shared and connections being made on Facebook, on Instagram, on X, on all of these places. And these are crimes, to be clear, this is not free speech and this idea that it's free speech. Free speech does not cover crimes. You know, you said before, Hollett makes us feel crazy. Let's just go back to Giselle here because she talked about how she would go to her gynecologist. She was having, can you imagine the gynecological problems that she was having, including she got STDs and her husband said, have you been cheating on me? And accused her of that and her hair was falling out. She was losing weight. You can only imagine what she's had to process. And when they say that it's from 10 years ago, that's when he started filming it. Who knows how long this has been going on? And a few months ago when Samantha Murphy was murdered in Victoria when she went for a run, women were like, we can't even go for a run. It's not about walking home late at night or what you're wearing. We can't even go for a run near our house in the early morning. And now it's like, we can't even sleep in our own bed inside our own marriage, inside our own house, and be

safe. It's that idea, this might be a really naive thing to say, but the idea that there are enough men who want to do that, right? Like who want to have sex with an unconscious woman and use her like a posable doll in this horrific fashion. You know, I'm a grown woman who's seen a lot of things. It still absolutely shocks me. I was talking about this case to my partner. I know not all men, but I was like, what is wrong with you? What is wrong with you? I know it's not him, but it's when a case like this cuts through, and you have to read this and I feel like when a woman is as brave as Giselle is being in, waving her anonymity, her daughter's written a book, they're trying to do a few different things. They're trying to change laws around these kind of platforms and they're trying to obviously expose their husband slash father as the monster that he is.

And also alert women to the fact that this is possible. about date rape drugs as being something that happens in bars and nightclubs. The idea that it could happen over a long period of time in your own home. She also wants people to know if you're having gynecological issues that you don't understand or if you're not forgetting things or falling asleep at the table. And his kids would say, because he's got two adult sons as well who've been with their mother along with her daughter, they'd be sitting at the table having dinner and she'd fall asleep at the table. And the dad would say, sometimes this happens, it's better if I just carry her to bed. And they are tortured by the fact this was happening under their nose.

The bravery of her and the fact that this has, because I did see some posts earlier in the week that were like, this should be front page news, everybody should know about this. And it is, right? It is a story that has broken through and gone around the world as it should.

I don't think men are talking about

it. But they're not exactly, this is what I mean when I was talking to my partner about it. I'm not seeing men talk about it. And I understand it's horrific. But I also, I don't know, like I say, you just get to a point with these stories where you're, it makes you want to, I don't know what the word is, I want to build a wall. I want them away. Like I just, it's the details.

It's what you say is that you see the headlines. And this is what a lot of the analysis in France is saying is that this is about French culture, but although I think it's much broader than that, doing some soul searching about how this happened. Because there are details about her meeting this man who was a friend of her husband's, and they talked about cycling, and then she went to the bakery and said hello to him. He was one of the men. Yeah. So a completely ordinary guy. And the difference with the internet, I would say, is that the internet gives you a playbook and it's whistleblowing on the fact that if this was some kind of sick, sadistic thing you wanted to do, well, he learned this from somewhere.

He also taught it. He's also been charged, Dominic Pelleko, with doing this to another man's wife. And this other man is one of Giselle Pelleco's rapists, accused rapists as well. And so clearly, this is more widespread, this fantasy that so many men have that we didn't realize, not just willing to keep it as fantasy, but that so many men were willing to act on it. And had he not been stopped, he was still going. He was still doing it. Out loud as this is a very heavy story and we want you to know that there is help always available. We have links to resources in the show notes.

Taylor Swift has spent the last five days doing very public PDA-filled pap walks with her boyfriend Travis Kelsey and I'm sure it has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that last week a rumour flew around the world that their relationship is in fact a contractual agreement but I do need to check this Mia. First, some context. Swift is having a little break from world domination at the moment. The ERS tour, which started in March last year, 2023, will finish in December this year. My God, that woman works hard. She spent the northern summer in Europe and now she's on a very well-earned break until October when she starts her last run of shows in Canada and the US. So you wouldn't blame the woman for wanting to have a little bit of fun. And these past few days, she's been watching her boyfriend, Travis Kelsey, play football in Missouri. She went to a wedding in Manhattan. She went to the US Open final in Flushing Meadows and on a fancy color-coordinated dinner date with Travis also in New York City. Every occasion there have been pictures of arrivals and departures and there have been really cute couple dressing moments and they've been passionate up all over the place. And if you can be sure of anything it's that if Taylor Swift was J-Lo, my friend Mia would have a lot of thoughts about just how public all this is. And if you're thinking, but isn't a woman allowed to go out with her boyfriend? Yes, yes they are. You'd be 100% right. But the very visible strategy is extra intriguing to people with no life like myself, because last week the couple denied the veracity of a contract circulating about their relationship. On the letterhead of Kelsey's PR firm Full Scope Public Relations, this document appeared to provide the wording for an official announcement for the news of the couple's split, which to be honest any of us could have written. It was like, after careful consideration, please respect their privacy, blah, blah, blah. It

was a whole content strategy doc. I wouldn't really do it. Keep going, but like, I think it's real. It was like when the announcement

would happen after the split and there were rumors that there was a date of their split, which was September the 28th, which is almost exactly a year since they first went public with their dating, blah, blah, blah. They have of course denied that it was real. The PR company came out and said it is absolutely not real. It's fake news. But Mia, what is going on in Travis and Taylor world? I

just want to light a little candle for Tre Paine, who is someone I admire a lot. That's Taylor Swift's publicist. She's having quite the time at the moment because she

would never get her document leaked. Never. She would guard that with her life, not an error made by Tre. Her document. I have to work with

these amateurs over at Travis Kelsey's.

I'm still waiting for the biopic of Tre Paine's life. It will definitely win another Oscar for Emma Stone. Now look there's been a lot going on because also in Taylor's orbit, so much for her downtime, the squad has been conspicuously absent. So when she's been at games in previous last season, she was always had her posse with her. There was Brittany Mahomes, who is the wife of Travis's teammate Patrick Mahomes and there's been Blake Lively. There's been a whole crew but even though... Just a little bit of controversy. Correct. All of those people were at Taylor's house after she finished the tour for a little bit of a holiday but they haven't been by her side because they are both a bit controversial. Black Lively is currently in the cancellation cycle because of her movie This Ends With Us and the way she apparently was not respectful enough to domestic violence victims. And Brittany Mahomes has been everywhere because she endorsed a whole bunch of posts by Donald Trump and has outed herself as a Trump voter. Now- Can I

get to the bottom of this? Because I read she just liked a few posts by Trump. She did, but more than one, quite a few. Okay, has she said the words I'm voting for Donald Trump? I don't think so. She hasn't, but then she

did one of those notes out posts about, or posted an Instagram tile about, isn't it important to be able to disagree with people that we still love them and abuse and of course all of those things. But given that just a few weeks ago Donald Trump retweeted some more fake shots, god it would be hard to be Tre Paine. I mean hard to be Taylor, hard to be Tre Paine. It's hard to be

you who's across all the Taylor stuff.

It's so hard to be me. Anyway so there's a lot going on right? So what's interesting about these pap walks, I personally if I was Taylor Swift after going around the world for as long as she has been and she's still not finished and having the spotlight on me that much, I would want to retreat and be in a dark room. But that's not how she wants to be. And I'm not judging that. I'm just saying it's something that I struggle to understand because the public nature of all of this and she's spoken about it before, and so has he, in terms of they show up to support each other at work and work for them. It's not just going to the office Christmas party of your partner. It's going to football games and concerts and where there are a lot of paparazzi. I'm

trying to understand this, because it is every day there's new shots going out to dinner, you know, watching the US Open all seem like very fun activities. But I'm like, what's the strategy behind this sudden like how conspicuous they are? Is it possible that it has anything to do with the VMAs that are this week? Right? So the VMAs are about to come up. And I was nominated

for I think 12 awards.

Yeah, she's been nominated for 1000. And oh, that means more couple shots. It means more couple shots. And it's going to be very competitive because as we talked about last week, there are a lot of really impressive solo female artists. VMA is a voted. Is it possible that she does need to continue to court a bit of attention? She's she's us.

On the world domination tour. Like, yeah, she's very, she doesn't leave anything on the field though, to use a sporting analogy. She, you're right. In the same way, she didn't need to release all those extra special versions of her album to shoulder out Chapel Rhone and Charlie XCX from the charts when they released their albums. But she does because she's incredibly ambitious. She really likes records. She likes objective measures of success. And what I think is interesting, this is the first boyfriend she's ever had that we know of in a really long time, who's been secure enough and who's enjoyed the attention. Well, her love's it. Yeah. That's one way of looking at it that

he's secure enough, but the more cynical way of looking at it is that he loves it. And it's part of the appeal for him. And like she, of course, she needs to go and watch him play football and out loud as let's just raise a flag. We know this is all silly nonsense. I know what's really going on between then we don't know, but speculating is fun, right? Yes, she go and watch him play football, but going to watch him play football, and I've been to lots of football games, right, in a denim corset, hot pants and thigh highlight x boots says, take my picture. It says, take my picture and I am here looking extra hot to support my extra hot boyfriend. And she is of course entirely entitled to do that. But I think he loves it. And she does it for him. What it's

not is very demure. It's

not that demure, but she's

not mindful or cutie But you know what it says to me and I thought that she'll get sick of it She'll get sick of that neediness one reading of this is that she wants everyone to look at her another reading of this is That she's a woman who's having really great sex and she's really feeling herself. Yeah, but you don't it is really enjoying dressing like that and feeling like that. It's also summer. It doesn't look very comfortable for me. So it's hot and she needs to get her arms and legs out.

I'm very supportive of all that. It's you who's normally telling the women to get their clothes back on, but apparently those rules don't apply to our princess tailor. I'm nothing if not inconsistent. But totally here for all that, she can have her hot girl summer as much as she wants and wear what she wants. But my suspicion is, as you always say about the fact that she's always gone for these guys who are obsessed with privacy, and now she's got exactly the opposite. And that will become as tiresome in time as the guys who are always obsessed with privacy. Because she might just want to land the couch in her trackies, and she's been out for dinner five

times in the last five days. I think she has agency, and I think she probably spends plenty of time lying at home in her trackies. And even though for us it seems like she's been so public and everywhere, she's actually just been at work. So when you're on tour, as we have been, the time that you're on this day is massively public. But then particularly with everything that's gone down in Europe and with what happened in Vienna and having to cancel the terrorism, she's locked down on this tour. It's not like she's been doing this for the last year and a half. So she wants to go out for dinner. She's got a house there. She's back with her boyfriend for two months. She doesn't have to be in tour mode where she says when she's touring and she's performing she doesn't drink because she says I never want to know what it's like to do that show with a hangover. So she's essentially been working back to back for a long time. I think it's her time to shine. Fair enough

and we love her and she can do what she wants. What I need to know from you is what you thought about the leaked document.

I thought that everybody's got a plan and it's not out of the realms of possibility to have a breakup announcement plan, right? Like I'm sure they've got an engagement plan and she is pregnant. Guess what? I'm having his baby. That, guess what? I'm lying though. I'm actually really am. As someone who doesn't

understand this stuff, it seems so obvious now, but it's not something that I assumed existed. So what I spent my weekend doing was zooming in on all the details of

the content plan. But Jessie, it's like us preparing Obits for famous people who are near death. You just got to be prepared. What were some of the details that stood out to you? I'm just obsessed. All right. So the plan gives

an example statement of what he's going to say and the whole point of the content strategy, in case you're wondering, and this is like a work document. This is what's fascinating. He retains a positive public image, minimizes negative media portrayal and continues to build his personal and professional brand. He's only allowed to talk to ESPN, Vanity Fair and People magazine. And if you're wondering he's talking points are, do you want to know what he's talking points are? Because he has to actually... This is all tracks. This is a good plan. They have to conduct some mock interviews with him so that he's prepared. But he has to say that he has respect for Taylor Swift and their mutual decision to part ways. Yeah. They had social media where the tile was going to be posted. Okay, obviously they look very much together at the moment. But this document, if it was real, the thing I can't make sense of is the date. Yeah, that's the flag

because I think that it would be very sensible and perhaps reckless not to have this document, but it doesn't mean that the relationship's fake. I think that the date implied that it could they were just going it was all manufactured say it's on this date How would we react? but I think that what the whole subtext of this was and why everyone got very excited was the idea that it was a fake relationship and I think that While parts of the document might be real and the content plan might be real. Is it a fake? What what I can see why he would need it. She doesn't really need it I just don't think they could be bothered to be honest, but I could be wrong It's almost a bit exciting if I was wrong because it would be quite exciting to think that this whole thing

What would be the motivation for this relationship to be fake because as we've just discussed Taylor Swift while being very ambitious and successful does not need the publicity like she is in charge of the world, whether she's dating Travis Kelsey or not. Well, it's good for him. He's got a lot more to gain from it than she does. Why would she be in a fake relationship? Well, because...

Because it's upended the trope of Taylor Swift, childless cat lady, can't get a man. No one's saying that about her. Can't hold a relationship or choose through all these guys to show her with someone who's her equal. Wholesome,

all-American.