Beatrice speaks with John Pring about how welfare privatization and calls to cut benefits in the name of reducing waste, fraud and abuse hollowed out the welfare state in the UK and directly led to the deaths of welfare recipients, and about his new book The Department: How a Violent Government Bureaucracy Killed Hundreds and Hid the Evidence. Find our other recent episode with John and China Mills (discussed in this episode) here: https://www.patreon.com/posts/115294795 Find John’s book here: https://www.plutobooks.com/9780745349893/the-department/ Transcript forthcoming. Find our book Health Communism here: www.versobooks.com/books/4081-health-communism Find Jules' new book, A Short History of Trans Misogyny, here: https://www.versobooks.com/products/3054-a-short-history-of-trans-misogyny Death Panel merch here (patrons get a discount code): www.deathpanel.net/merch As always, support Death Panel at www.patreon.com/deathpanelpod