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An exploration of an interview with a Texan entrepreneur running an innovation hub in Rwanda, collaborating with governments across Africa for governance improvements. The chapter sets the scene at the innovation hub's cafe and the host's regular visits during his stay in Rwanda.

In 2020, in the middle of a pandemic, Jon Stever launched an extraordinary experiment to draw together a representative sample of the world to discuss the climate and ecological crisis the world is facing. In this conversation, I talk to him about how he and his team did that, and what it teaches us about the potential for citizen assemblies generally.