We are Virginia Sole-Smith and Corinne Fay and it’s time for a BONUS January Indulgence Gospel!

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Episode 230 Transcript

Virginia

So today we are just catching you up on some general January news. These are things that are happening in our lives and the world. And then we're going to answer a few listener questions.

Corinne

This is kind of my favorite type of episode,

Virginia

Same. Do you want to go first? Do you have an update for us? Some news?

Corinne

One thing that I've been dying to ask you, and I've kind of been holding back on is... have you watched Heated Rivalry.

Virginia

I haven't watched it.

Corinne

Okay, but do you know what I'm talking about?

Virginia

Well, I'm just going to Google it real quick.

Corinne

Oh, my God. No! Don't even Google it. This is what you need to do this weekend.

Wait, do you have a kid-free weekend because it's not kid-friendly.

Virginia

Oh come on, it’s a sports thing!

Corinne

There is so little sports. Let me just tell you.

Virginia

Okay...

Corinne

If you're watching it for the sports, you will be disappointed. There' is no sports, okay? No sports. Basically, if the camera was one inch lower, it would be porn.

Virginia

Oh! Okay.

Corinne

It's based on, like, gay romance novels.

Virginia

Ohhhhh it's the gay hockey players! Yes, alright. Watching. I am kid-free and I will be doing that this weekend.

Corinne

And I think Jack will like it as well. So I recommend you watch it together.

Virginia

Obviously.

Corinne

It's very horny. Whoa. And I will say: I watched like, half of the first episode, and I was like, I don't think this is for me. And then it was, like, popping off on the Internet. So I was like, all right, I gotta give it another try. And now I'm, like, obsessed with Connor Storrie.

Virginia

So okay, is it like you're watching it because it's so absurd? Or are you invested in the characters?

Corinne

I'm invested.

Virginia

You're invested.

Corinne

It's just like a romance novel. They're both different kinds of sports tropes. One of them's kind of like a tough guy from Russia, and the other one's a little softie Canadian. It's very sweet. And I think that the actors have a lot of chemistry.

And you see their butts a lot.

Virginia

Well, I'm in. We'll watch this this weekend. I mean, I have read many a hockey player romance novel. Some of them were gay.

Corinne

Then you've probably read the novels.

Virginia

I may have read the novels. Although I don't like hockey, I have to say, I'm never going to be a pick me girl for hockey. It's a confusing sport to me.

Corinne

There's like, basically no hockey. Having watched the whole thing I can tell you nothing about hockey.

Virginia

You have learned nothing.

Corinne

There's like, cup that you can win? That's all I know.

Virginia

Oh yes. Wait. I want to call it a Stanley Cup? But isn't that the water bottles? Or is there also a hockey Stanley Cup?

Corinne

I don't know, Virginia and I don't care. Gay hockey forever.

Virginia

Delightful. This is an amazing update. We are actually watching the second season of Bad Sisters right now, on your recommendation. So we do have to finish that up. I didn't think that it could pull off a good second season, but they really are delivering. And then in my parenting life, I'm continuing to work through Buffy the Vampire Slayer with my 12 year old. It's a delight. I really do feel like you maybe need to consider a Buffy watch at some point.

Corinne

Next time I have 47 hours unscheduled weeks.

Virginia

I mean, you can chip away at it too. It's on Disney Plus! Oh wait, you probably don't have Disney Plus.

Corinne

My bad.

Virginia

No that's fair. Well, it's been very fun we're in season four now for the Buffy fans in the audience. And it's going to start getting a little more violent. I'll have to feel it out. But I think we're, at the point of no return.

That's a good TV update. Have you been reading anything good? I read a book that I think you liked, and I don't think I liked it. But I think I'm in the minority.

Corinne

Which book?

Virginia

Heart The Lover by Lily King.

Corinne

Oh, my God, you didn't like it?!

Virginia

No. What am I missing?

Corinne

What didn't you like?

Virginia

I felt like they were all so annoying and pretentious. Is it because I was an English major, so I don't like English majors? We're just pretty annoying, with all the literary references. Okay, we get it. You are boys who read books. I was just like, why would you sleep with either one of them? I don't get it.

Corinne

Oh, fascinating. I mean, I was just sobbing for the entire second half.

Virginia

It does get sad in the second half, but I didn't like him, so I didn't care?

Corinne

You weren't invested.

Virginia

And it's not hard to get me invested in a health journey of any sort! I'm not going to spoil it for anyone, but—okay, spoiler alert! We're going to talk about it with spoilers, so that we can really get into it. If you didn't read that book, you'll want to skip ahead about a minute and a half.

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SCROLL TO NEXT SET OF BUTTER EMOJIS TO AVOID SPOILERS!

Okay, I thought it was real weird that she gave a kid up for adoption, and then was just like, "But I know she's fine. It's fine. It's all fine." And yet she was so worried about the kid she did have who had health issues. I mean, of course she was worried about him— but she had just mentally been like, that one's fine. I picked good people. They had a nice photo. So I know she's having a great childhood. That was really weird to me.

Corinne

I mean, I felt like that seemed like the decision of a young, stressed out person,

Virginia

Yeah, maybe. And how she keeps talking about it is meant to be a trauma response?

Corinne

It was a questionable young person decision.

Virginia

Yes, definitely. But it felt weird that she would never reflect further upon it as she got into her own motherhood. I'm not saying she was wrong to give the baby up for her adoption. I also think abortion exists, and that would have made sense. But I'm not saying she should have kept the child. I just thought, don't you think you would have gotten any more nuanced in your feelings about it as the years went on?

Corinne

The book is her getting more nuanced about it. Right?

Virginia

Not really! Not about the baby. She's like, Yeah, she's fine. I mean, she finally tells him about it, but.

Corinne

I don't know. I think she was kind of in denial about it, or just avoiding it, and then the book is her coming to terms with it.

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END OF SPOILERS

Virginia

Well, I just felt like everyone was pretentious and unlikable. And it feels like everyone loves this book so much, and I don't know what I missed.

Corinne

Have you read her other books?

Virginia

No, this was my first Lily King,

Corinne

Okay, because there's also, like a connection to one of the other books.

Virginia

Well, I'm not going to read it because I didn't like any of these people. But Corinne loved it, guys, so if you love it, if you've read it, let us know in the comments!

I was just surprised. This is the first time I've ever not liked one of your book recs.

Corinne

I am a little surprised, but I think maybe I'm primed to like those college, academic group of kids books. That's a genre I really like.

Virginia

I think it's a genre I don't like. I think I actively dislike reading about people in college.

Corinne

Yeah, it's interesting, because I'm not like, looking back fondly on my own experience at that time. Yeah. I think I just like, enjoy the dynamics. Did you read A Secret History?

Virginia

No,

Corinne

I love that book. So I feel like, this was maybe tapping into that.

Virginia

I think I just think academia is very pretentious?

Corinne

Isn't one of your parents a professor?

Virginia

Yes I was raised by professors.

Corinne

So maybe there's something there.

Virginia

Three out of four of my parents have worked as professors. So yes. I grew up in academia.

Corinne

Okay, well, none of mine have.

Virginia

Well, I am now reading The Stone Yard Devotional by Charlotte Wood. It's about this woman, who's sort of lost in her life and moves into a convent. And I keep thinking "Corinne would really like this book."

Corinne

It does sound good to me.

Virginia

I don't know if I like it, but I do think you would really like it.

Usually I'm a big do not finisher if I don't like a book. And I will say Heart The Lover was a snappy read. So I kept going. Because I was like, well, Corinne loved this book, so I'll keep reading to find out when I'll love it. And that was never, but it was a fast read, and this one is too. I'm moving through it quickly, but I think I do need to really root for the characters.

Corinne

That's funny. I have a conversation like this a lot with my mom, because she doesn't like books where the characters are too flawed. We always say it like, if she doesn't like them, she, doesn't want to read it.

Virginia

I am okay with flawed, but they have to be flawed and likable.

Corinne

They have to have redeeming qualities,

Virginia

And maybe some awareness of their flawedness in a interesting way?. I don't know. I don't need them to be good people, but I guess, endearing? And in these two books, I'm not finding anyone that endearing. But they are interesting, all right.

Corinne

Well I'm also extremely curious to hear about your 30 Day Strength Challenge.

Virginia

Okay, yes! So despite the fact that in our New Year's Day episode, I was like, "We're not doing any January fitness challenges!" Three days later, I was like, Oh, I'm doing a fitness challenge.

It's a challenge created by friend of the show, beloved podcast guest, Anna Maltby, who writes the How to Move newsletter. And she has a 30 day strength training challenge going on this month.

And I saw it, and I love Anna, but I wasn't going to do it. Because I was just like, oh, I'm not going to do that. And then my friend Mary texted a bunch of us and was like, "I really want to do the strength training challenge. Who's in?" and I was like, "Oh, all right, sure, I'll do it with you!" And, it's very fun. It's getting me to work out consistently five days a week, which I never do!

Oh, let me pause and say, we're going to talk some specifics on weights. If you don't want to hear numbers, skip ahead. Man, I'm just getting people to fast forward through this whole episode! We're done with book spoilers, but we might mention weight numbers. So if you don't want that... skip ahead again.

Corinne

And just to clarify, you mean weight lifting numbers. Not body weight numbers.

BUTTER EMOJIS AROUND WEIGHT TALK

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Virginia

No, no, no, no. This has nothing to do with body weight. I am not doing this to lose weight. I am doing this to support my friend who wants to do the challenge, and because I kind of liked the idea of seeing what it would feel like to increase my weight training for a month.

Corinne

So, my question is: It's a 30 day challenge, but you're not doing strength workouts every day for 30 days, right?

Virginia

No, Anna makes her programs very customizable, so you could really do anything. You could do one workout a week and be like, "This is my 30 day challenge." She lets you make your own plan.

She does include a suggested schedule, which is six workouts a week, but only three of them are weights. It's three days of weights, two days of cardio and then a Pilates day. I'm trimming it down to five days.

[Post-recording correction: It's actually 2 days of weights, plus a "core and conditioning" HIIT workout where only one move involves a weight. Plus 3 suggested cardio and Pilates days.]

And my main goal for this is to see: Is this helping me reliably carve out a few more workout windows in my week? It's getting me to try out days when I wouldn't normally do a workout., and see, does it make sense with the schedule? If so, when I'm done with this challenge, then I'll reflect on, do I want to keep this schedule? Do I want to do go back to two days of weights but do a little more cardio? I'm kind of just using it as, a see how it feels to do more weights and more workouts. To see how it feels to do more movement, and then think about what kind of movement I think I want to keep doing.

Corinne

Cool.

Virginia

Yeah. it's been fun so far. I did print out the little calendar and write down my plan, and I've been giving myself little stickers. So we love that. I'm only a week into it at this point, so it could all fall apart. But I think Anna's so good at creating challenges that aren't about losing weight. She says this is more prescriptive than her usual work. She is encouraging you to make a schedule and stick to a schedule, to give yourself some accountability, which I think can be interesting. But there's no weight loss goal.

She really wants people to feel empowered to develop weightlifting workouts they do on their own, not with the aid of a video. And I love you Anna, but I'm not going to do that. I just want you to tell me what to do all the time.

Corinne

Totally.

Virginia

I don't want fitness mental load, but I am following her advice to, keep track of how much weight I'm lifting. And then to see over the course of the month, if I can increase that weight. So right now there are some moves where I only use 10 or 15 lb weights. Can we go up to 20 or 30? We'll see!

Corinne

I spoke to someone else who is doing this challenge. They were very sore!

Virginia

Yeah, I'm pretty sore. Yesterday, we did a weights workout, and there was one move that required bands, and we didn't have bands. And two of my friends came to do it with me. So we substituted side planks for those moves, and it turned out to be quite a lot of side planks, and my obliques are real unhappy, But, you know, it's like, the good kind of sore where you're like, Oh, I did a thing, yay.

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WEIGHT LIFTING TALK OVER

What about you? How's power lifting going these days?

Corinne

it's going good. I kind of haven't been going very much, because it was just December. Like, did I go at all in December? I feel like maybe just the first week or two.

Virginia

but then you were driving to Oregon and back.

Corinne

Yes, my mom was here and we traveled. So I'm kind of, getting back into it after a little break. And that's always a little hard. For the first couple workouts back, you're like, Oh, I'm weak.

Virginia

Or I like to reframe it as, Wow, I can really feel like I got a hard workout without doing too much.

Corinne

So that's where I'm at. Beginning again!

Virginia

Well, it is the time of year for that. And also, I support everyone not doing workout challenges. One of my friends who's doing this challenge, as of this recording, has yet to do a workout even though we're six days in because she has Covid, poor thing.

So I think it's really good to do these things, but not do them in a overly obsessive way. Oh and I have a low key goal for myself this year of improving my flexibility. I really would like to have an easier time getting off of the floor.

Corinne

Is that related to flexibility or not?

Virginia

I think it's a combination of flexibility and strength. If I think more about my glute muscles, I can get off the floor more easily. But there is also some reaching involved, and I don't know there's mobility, for sure. And I feel like as I've been getting stronger, I've also been getting a little stiffer. And getting off the floor is hard.

Corinne

Yeah, it is.

Virginia

And it's not a moral imperative, but I end up on the floor a lot because I have kids, so I would like it to be easier to get out of that position.

Corinne

Maybe you need to get rid of all your furniture.

Virginia

That's the thing. That's what we'll do.

Corinne

Because sometimes I sit on the floor when I'm watching TV. I don't know why. I'm just more comfortable. So maybe I should just get rid of all my furniture.

Virginia

Probably that's the next logical step.

Corinne

I am not sitting on the couch while I watch TV.

Virginia

But make sure to keep it in your neighbor's house or your in-laws house.

Corinne

My auxiliary house.

Virginia

So you can go work on it during the day.

For folks who are like, what are they talking about? This is a reference to an episode we did where we looked at is everything a diet, and we looked at an article from Dwell by a man who had given up all of his furniture in service of his family's health. And we're here to say you don't have to do that. Chairs are great.

Okay. The other thing I wanted to tell you about is my new orange tree.

Corinne

Wow. This is an indoor tree.

Virginia

It's an indoor tree. It's my favorite thing I got for Christmas. My mom got me an orange tree, and my eight year old has named it Olive Piper. So it is Olive Piper, the tree.

Corinne

Olive the orange tree.

Virginia

Don't overthink it. But it has two oranges on it! They're green, but I'm tracking them turning orange. My mom has an orange tree, and she's been getting lots of oranges off it. And I think she has better light than I do, but I'm really optimistic. It's an exciting new thing to obsess over.

Corinne

That's really exciting.

Virginia

And if we do get oranges, how thrilling will it be?

Corinne

It seems like an orange tree would smell good.

Virginia

It doesn't smell like anything right now, but I think maybe once the fruit ripens.

Corinne

Or I guess I was thinking of flowers,

Virginia

Oh yes, Well if anyone does indoor citrus, hit me up with your tips. Because I don't know a lot about it's life cycle, I'm worried about how much to water it, all that kind of stuff.

Corinne

I wonder if in the summer, you can put it outside.

Virginia

Well, my mom strongly advised against it. She tried that and it was like an orange tree crisis. I guess citrus trees are prone to bugs and funguses and so if it's happy, just keep it where it is, just keep it happy. It's pretty big, too.

Corinne

Should we do some questions?

Virginia

Let's do some listener questions.

Corinne

All right. The first one is,

What should I say to a friend when they are complaining about their own body?

Virginia

Oh, these are always such annoying moments. Truly, just annoyed for you.

Corinne

I think there are two sides here. One side is: It's clearly bothering you. And the other side is: Can you empathize with your friend who's clearly having a hard time.

So I think you kind of need to balance how much it's bothering with you, with, how much it's bothering them. Do you want to just set a hard boundary? Like, "I'd rather not talk about this." Or do you want to be like, "That's really hard, my body bothers me sometimes too."

Virginia

How much do you think the relative body sizes of the friends matters here?

Corinne

I think if it's someone smaller than you, it might be triggering to you in a different way. And you might want to just set a boundary, versus if it's someone who's bigger than you complaining about their body.

Virginia

Yeah, I think it does matter. I think if it's someone smaller than you, it's okay to say, Hey, I'm sorry you're having a hard time, but I am not the person for this conversation. Wish you well with that, but I'm not the person for this.

If it's someone bigger than you—I don't want to invalidate your own struggles with your body, but can you understand it more from the perspective of they experience bias and stigma that you don't deal with, and find empathy for it is harder for them to navigate seating or doctors or clothing access, etc. I think that has to play into it.

Corinne

There's also layers of privilege with this stuff though, that you might not know about. Like a thinner person could also be more disabled, or a transgender person or a person of color.

Virginia

Good point.

Corinne

Also, there are no details in this question. Like, what are they complaining about?

Virginia

I assume weight, if they sent it to us!

Corinne

Yes, but maybe they're complaining about, my butt is too big for this chair, or people stare at me when I do XYZ thing, versus, just like I have flabby muffin top, right?

Virginia

That's interesting. I think if someone is just denigrating their body, that is harder to absorb as a friend than someone who's like, "I'm talking about what's difficult in my lived experience of my body."

Corinne

Totally,

Virginia

But on the other hand, of course, people do really struggle emotionally with feeling negative about how their body looks. So I'm not saying they don't deserve a place to vent about that.

But if they're venting requires the use of anti-fat language, that's a problem. If your best friend is New York Times restaurant reviewer Pete Wells, I think you should set a boundary and say, "Pete, I don't want to hear about how you lost the weight of a basset hound."

If the only way they can talk about their struggle is to invoke anti-fat rhetoric and language, I think you should set a boundary.

Corinne

I think that's a good way of talking about it. Like, what are they complaining about? Is it anti-fatness, or is it something else.

Virginia

The next question is a very fun one.

Please tell us about your pets, including their names and origin stories.

Corinne

I'll go first because I only have one pet. I have a dog named Bunny. I've had her for almost 10 years, and she's around 11. I got her from a shelter in Albuquerque when I moved here, or not long after I moved here. I had been knowing I wanted a dog, and I was living in a bunch of situations where I was not allowed to have a dog. So as soon as I entered a situation where I was, I got a dog. She's a pit bull. She was a scrawny little shelter dog. And now she's kind of entering her old ladyhood.

Virginia

11. Wow.

Corinne

I love her. She's also kind of bad. She's, not great with other dogs, not great with, like, smaller creatures in general. But yeah, she's my dog, so!

Virginia

She's allowed to have preferences and feelings about the world. I admire Bunny from afar. When Corinne drives to Maine, and I'm always like,"Come and stay on your way to Maine in New York!" She's like, our dogs can't be friends. So we haven't figured that out yet.

Corinne

Also, also chickens.

Virginia

Well, the chickens are in a coop. I mean, it's easy to keep Bunny away from the chickens. I promise, okay. Speaking of, yes, I have chickens.

Corinne

How many pets do you have? Would you say?

Virginia

I currently oversee? Manage? I manage a flock of 13 animals.

Corinne

Wow. Does that include the chickens?

Virginia

That includes eight chickens.

I would like to underscore that I am a cat person who would be happy owning one cat. One to two cats is, to me, the correct number of pets.

I do like dogs. I am much more of a dog person now that I have a dog. But they are so much more work than cats. It's not even funny. It's not the same conversation at all. So if I had a different life, I would be a one to two cat person.

However, I have a child who is an animal whisperer. Like truly, that is her love language, that is her passion, that is her whole world. And you're supposed to really try to encourage your children's interests. And so somehow, now I have 1000 pets.

When the kids were born, we had, at the time, three old man cats that were dying off in their early childhood. And then once we were down to one cat, we got the dog. So we have a Bernedoodle named Penelope. And at that point, in 2020, we also had the dog, a cat named Walter, and a fish tank.

And when we divorced, I said, I will keep the dog and Walter the cat who hates the dog will go to their dad's house and the fish tank went to their dad's house too. Oh, I'm sorry we also had a leopard gecko at that point. So I kept the gecko. And I've talked before on the podcast the story of Blue the gecko. I won't go into it now, but Blue the gecko did disappear for a while. So we adopted a second gecko, and now we have two geckos, Blue and Kat. And the dog, Penelope.

Corinne

What is the lifespan of a gecko?

Virginia

it's like 25 years. It didn't know that when I got a gecko.

Corinne

Are you kidding me?

Virginia

No. Blue and Kat and I are in it for the long haul. They can live a really long time. But I will say they are very low maintenance pets. When they're not lost in your house, they just sleep in their tanks all day, and you feed them wax worms every couple of days. It's no work. Compared to a dog, it's fine. They're less work than a cat.

So for a while, we were a household of just dog and geckos, and then the kids convinced me to adopt two kittens, so we added Licorice and Cheese, our two cats.

And Cheese is my favorite of all of the pets. And I tell all the other pets this all the time, because I'm always hoping to inspire them to be more like Cheese. Cheese is the most laid back cat. He's like, You do you. I'm fine. I'll come and curl up next to you, but I'm not in your business. I don't create drama. I don't create interspecies drama. Like Penelope and Licorice are always working stuff out. Cheese is my favorite child. Everyone knows this.

And then after we were really at indoor pet capacity, I would say, with the two geckos, the two cats and the dog, Jack, came into our lives, and he really encouraged my 12 year old's passion for chickens, and now we have the eight chickens.

Corinne

Wow.

Virginia

And the chickens do have names. Let me see if I can do it. Pom Pom, Turkey, Shiva the destroyer, Lord Peanut of Doom, Peggy, Alex, Lily and somebody else. Oh, Thomas J Finnegans.

Corinne

Will you be getting any other animals.

Virginia

No.

Corinne

Ask your children.

Virginia

I say no, okay, but I cannot with confidence.

I mean, for sure, if we have a casualty, there will be a strong argument for replacement. I have held firm on no second dog, because as much as I love Penelope, they are so much work. Dogs are like adding another child to your home. And I don't want that.

And I don't think anyone wants another cat, because, I mean, we make Jack do the cat litter now that he's here but none of us were real enthusiastic about litter box cleaning. So that’s the one downside of cats. And for anyone whose kids are pet curious: I don't think reptiles are actually great pets, because they are not very interactive or interesting. This is an unpopular position, but I think if you're inclined to go reptile and you live in a neighborhood where you can do it, chickens are a better option. They are also tiny dinosaurs and you get eggs, and they're more fun and interactive,

Corinne

That makes sense.

Virginia

And it's about the same work wise. They're not a ton of work. Also, just be a cat person, though.

I mean, it's fine, nobody needs this many pets. But they do bring us a lot of joy.

Corinne

All right. Well, on to the next topic.

Question, do I need to buy a sex pillow? Instagram keeps making me think I do not sure if they are size inclusive.

Virginia

I think you do. You don't need to buy one off Instagram. But we learned from Brianna Campos, when she came on to do our fat sex episode, that they are definitely size inclusive and, a really good option for fat sex.

Corinne

I feel like, if you're wondering about it, why not? At the very least, you have something to try out.

Virginia

See if you're into it. I wonder if Instagram keeps sending this person the same one they send me, which is like a very high end linen sex pillow.

Corinne

Oh, wow.

Virginia

Called Tabu.

Corinne

I'm not getting advertised this.

Virginia

Well, you will now. I've been curious about it. I've been, seeing the ads.

Corinne

I would definitely look into whether it's size inclusive. Maybe see if there are reviews from anyone? Or how strong the foam is?

Virginia

Are we worried about it getting flattened? Are we worried about width? Like, you don't want to feel like something's narrow? You don't want it to feel like a yoga block underneath you? So maybe check some measurements.

But I think there's got to be some good, fat-friendly sex pillows out there, because the sex wedge is really helpful for working it out with bodies with bellies. It gives you new angles to get to. We say go for it and report back and let us know.

Corinne

Go for it.

Virginia

Okay, I will read the last question:

Hi. I am wondering if you find that personal responsibility vis a vis sustainability to be a diet ever? For example, pledging to do something to help the planet in absolute terms. Like, I will never, ever drink bottled water. I will never buy a new article of clothing, etc.
It seems blasphemous to say personal responsibility, efforts towards sustainability is a diet, but I'd be curious to hear your and Corinne's thoughts on it. I do think it's great and necessary to take steps to reduce, reuse, recycle, have a smaller footprint, use resources responsibly and sustainably, but sometimes the rigidity of people's rules around this and the moralizing feel familiar to diet culture.

Corinne

I do think it can be a diet. it's one of those things where you kind of have to find the sweet spot between it feeling like a restrictive diet, and not being so jaded that you do nothing. So it's not being like, I will never, ever drink bottled water, but also not throwing every plastic bottle you encounter in to the landfill.

Virginia

I think anytime we're absolute about something, we start to enter into a perfectionist territory, which goes diet-y, fast—if by diet we mean using a set of external rules to judge yourself, setting high standards that are impossible to achieve, and deciding there's an arbitrary standard of goodness by which to measure yourself. Those are all the main components of how Burnt Toast defines a diet. And I can see them showing up here. But it doesn't mean like you're saying that the actual impetus to want to live more sustainably is problematic.

I think it's that we are so used to feeling like if we're doing something, there's one right way to do it. That's how we apply a diet lens to this topic. And it's sort of ironic, right? Because the whole goal is to live more sustainably. And there is nothing less sustainable than a diet.

Corinne

I've definitely, felt this way about the sustainability fashion conversation sometimes where people are, like, "There's absolutely no excuse for shopping from fast fashion brands."

Virginia

Budget, accessibility...come on, guys.

Corinne

Have you ever been a size 26 and needed a pair of pants immediately.

Virginia

I can think of so many reasons why folks need to shop fast fashion at least sometimes. And I just think anytime we remove the possibility for gray areas we remove the ability for something to be sustainable, I also think a lot of the steps that people take towards sustainability and get really obsessive about doing "one right way" are not necessarily the things we most need to happen to save the planet.

What we really need is, big legislative change, industry regulation—all these big things. And it's not to say that personal choices don't matter, but you becoming overly rigid about bottled water is not going to make or break anything. So how is it useful? How is it getting you towards the goal? And at what cost?

If we're always kind of moving the goal post on what's enough here, that's not useful. Which is not to say, don't do some of these things. But the absolutism, I see it all the time, and I think a lot people start those projects and are not able to sustain them.

And I say this to someone who regularly feels like she's not doing nearly enough for the planet. So I'm not saying I've got to figured it out. There's certainly more I could be doing.

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Butter

Corinne

Well, I think we made a podcast.

Virginia

I think we did that! What's your Butter today?

Corinne

Okay, my Butter is something which I also just recommended on Big Undies, but it is called Ponaris, kind of guessing on how you say it. And it is a nasal emollient. So it is like a little glass bottle with a dropper that is filled with oil and minty herbs or something.

Virginia

Beef tallow.

Corinne

And you drop it up your nose and it immediately drips down the back of your throat and clears everything out.

Virginia

Ohhhh....so not beef tallow.

Corinne

It feels amazing. Someone recommended it on the Big Undies Fall Must Haves. And last week, I just, reached a tipping point where I was like, my legs are scaly. My sinuses are scaly.

Virginia

I am becoming a lizard. It's too dry.

Corinne

It was like a desert inside of me. And so I ordered a new lotion and some Ponaris. Anyways, apparently it was developed by NASA for astronauts to use in space as. part of their first aid kit.

Virginia

Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

Corinne

So that’s science, if you've ever heard of it.

Virginia

It's good enough for the astronauts noses, guess it's good enough for my nose!

Corinne

It's a little bit weird. But I do feel like it's really making a difference.

Virginia

Well I totally want to try it. I also totally want to say that this is your second MAHA-adjacent recommendation.

Corinne

Is this one MAHA? I was thinking this was more like the solar shield.

Virginia

Well it's in the woo, woo supplement territory.

Corinne

Okay, well, yeah.

Virginia

We're getting into ear candling vibes. People are going to be like, I love ear candling.

Corinne

Is that MAHA?

Virginia

I don't know.

Corinne

I don't know that it is. Ear candling is, crunchy hippie, right?

Virginia

But it's the crunchy hippie that then circles back around to MAHA. I'm just saying, we're concerned and we're tracking.

Corinne

Thank you for your concern.

Virginia

Well, to make you feel better, my Butter is also going to be a weird nasal supplement.

Corinne

Oh, amazing. Wow. We did not plan this.

Virginia

It's also perfect because this is the pets episode! Mine is a weird supplement that I'm giving my cats so I won't be allergic to them.

Corinne

Whoa, does that work?

Virginia

I can't believe I'm saying this, but... yes, it seems to be really working. Question Mark?

Corinne

What is it?

Virginia

Okay, it's a brand called Pacagen. It's a chicken flavored powder, and you sprinkle a little on the top of your cat's food. And they claim, I guess this too, is science. Question mark? They claim that it changes the protein in your cat saliva, and that's what we're allergic to. And cats lick their fur everywhere. So that's why you react to cat fur.

I, despite being an avowed cat person, am allergic to cats. I live in a lot of denial about it, because I love them and wish to have cats, and don't wish to acknowledge the cat allergy that I live with, but I was reaching a point last fall where I was like, I mean, I am definitely, really allergic to my cats. Every time I pet them, my eyes were streaming and, you know, I wake up with a stuffy nose all the time. Is it sleep apnea? Is it cat allergies? Who knows?

Anyway, someone on Instagram influenced me to try this because she claimed it totally worked for her. And I was like, whatever, we'll try it. And both Jack and I, within like, two weeks, were like, oh my god, we're really a lot less allergic, and I can pet the cat now and not have an immediate reaction.

Corinne

Wow, that's amazing.

Virginia

Now, couple of caveats.

It's quite expensive. I'm locked in now, but it's like 60 bucks a month, or something. Like, it's not nothing, especially because I have two cats, so I need to buy, like, multiple things, and itcomes in these little, teeny bottles.

Also, my family, who are all much more cat allergic than me, when they visited for Christmas, were like, You're crazy. We're still allergic to your cats.

So I don't know what level of allergy severity it works for. I would have described my allergy as mild to moderate. But also I don't know, maybe they were having colds or something. Nasal stuff is very mysterious. It's very hard to nail down what's causing it. So we don't know.

But it's working well enough that I'm going to keep buying it for the lifespan of these cats, I guess, and as long as I feel like it's still working. It's something to try, because otherwise I was like, am I at the allergy shot stage? And that felt like a whole big project.

I hope this is helpful information for anyone else whose nose is dry and stuffy. You can put oil in it, and you can feed your cat something weird.

Corinne

Amazing.

Virginia

All right. Thank you all for listening. We would love to know what is new with you and what you're putting in your nose. Take that in whatever direction you want! Tell us in the comments.

Make sure to rate and review us in your podcast player and tell friends where they can listen for breaking news about nasal substances.

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The Burnt Toast Podcast is hosted by Virginia Sole-Smith (follow me on Instagram) and Corinne Fay, who runs @SellTradePlus, and Big Undies.

Our producer is Kim Baldwin who also writes The Blonde Mule.

The Burnt Toast logo is by Deanna Lowe.

Our theme music is by Farideh.

Tommy Harron is our audio engineer.

Thanks for listening and for supporting anti-diet, body liberation journalism!

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