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David Bianculli: I don't think advertising is aligned with the, what makes podcasting great. There's a lot of questions about whether that's aligned with the product business model of Google and Facebook. He says office faced backlash when they switched from ad-supported devices to subscription models. BiancullI: Maybe maybe that is very well aligned. But these are just externalities that we're seeing now that are, that are negative; it's an open question.